The fact that ‘families upended by school shootings’ is a significant enough demographic to be relevant in us politics, is saying something of itself.
Getting murdered by guns is the number one cause of children’s deaths in the United States of America.
Just sad, isn’t it? Even more sad that we don’t do anything about it.
Did we stop the thoughts and prayers?
Guns are just too ingrained in the core of American culture for this ever to be fixed. It would probably be easier to just abolish the entire school system than it would be to implement any meaningful gun control policy.
The rest of the Western world doesn’t have the same issue because we view guns totally differently.
After an incident where an 11 year old boy was murdered, the governor of New Mexico banned open and concealed carry gun laws in New Mexico for 30 days. Right after the trauma. And just for 30 days. No one had to rip their heart out in public to be heard. The governor of New Mexico preemptively heard them and did something.
And you know what happened?
Everyone wedded to the availability of guns and their use came out to oppose it. As far as they’re concerned, the leading cause of death for children can be firearms, firearms suicides can reach all-time highs, and the very population that seems to want guns around the most can kill themselves the most. It’s all fine.
The magnitude of needless harm is inconsequential to just having a gun nearby. And they don’t care if you, your whole family, or anyone dies because of it. They need their guns.
Non-American here.
Have you tried giving free guns to minorities? I seem to remember people suddenly change their minds on gun control when the Black Panthers armed themselves in California.
American here.
I’m all for minorities and other groups struggling for equality arming themselves. It is a lot harder for the government to stomp on your rights when they have to worry about you fighting back.
It wasn’t that long ago the government used airplanes to bomb its own citizens…
Until America addresses it’s police problem, which I propose stems from an ongoing inequality problem, the American public needs a way to defend itself.
I think that’s not a reasonable argument, though. If you kill a cop, you will likely not survive it. You will likely not be arrested. If you manage to flee the scene, you will be hunted down with the cooperation of law enforcement from around the country. Right there in New Mexico, they just had a situation with a guy who answered his door with a gun and got blown away, cowboy style, by the cops who knocked on the wrong door. And it’s being considered a justified shooting. And the guys son happens to be a NM cop, iirc. People buy guns to protect themselves from other people who bought guns, not from the government.
Funny enough, the majority of people in minority groups are for gun control. Makes sense since, after all, they live with the consequences of letting any dumbass on the street to own one.
Why do think minor drug possession is a felony and police over-patrol minority areas, they aim to make all minorities felons and keep them either in prison or unable to legally obtain firearms
The frustrating thing is the open carry ban would have had ZERO impact on that shooting:
"The young boy was shot and killed in a suspected road rage shooting last Wednesday near Isotopes Park. Police said someone in a Dodge Durango fired 17 shots at the car he was in when leaving the game, killing Froylan and wounding his 24-year-old cousin, Tatiana.
“The vehicle just pulled up on the side of them and started shooting,” Amaro said.
All of it happened with Froylan’s mother and baby brother in the back seat."
You could ban open carry, you could ban concealed carry, that would not have stopped that shooting.
There really isn’t a way to know how it could have been prevented until we know who the shooter is.
Kind of pointless to pick a single particular time and argue that something would or would not have stopped it without any actual data.
If guns were less prevalent and harder to get would it cause there to be less gun fatalities?
If you are harder on people committing gun crimes would there be less gun fatalities?
If it were illegal to carry large amounts of amnition around with you, would there be less gun fatalities?
If it were illegal to carry around lots of weapons without being in a well-regulated militia, hence where police or other people would see you and go in that person’s probably up to no good, would that cause there to be less gun fidelities?
Those statements have a lot more deciding power behind them whether they’re right or wrong are you agree or disagree They actually mean something.
If some kid rolls up and does a school shooting do we hold their families responsible? You lived with that guy, prove reasonable doubt that you didn’t see it happening and not report it.
But this one time it band camp crap doesn’t prove or disprove anything it doesn’t say anything about the general working of gun laws on population.
Kind of pointless to pick a single particular time and argue that something would or would not have stopped it without any actual data.
Agreed, but I’m not the one citing it as an example of why the state needed an open carry ban. Fact of the matter is it was a driveby shooting, not a case of someone open carrying shooting.
If guns were less prevalent and harder to get would it cause there to be less gun fatalities?
Sure, but that can’t happen because of the 2nd amendment. It’s a non-starter.
If you are harder on people committing gun crimes would there be less gun fatalities?
Not really, no. Mass shootings end in either suicide, life in prison, or the death penalty. Hasn’t stopped them.
If it were illegal to carry large amounts of amnition around with you, would there be less gun fatalities?
Nope, because there’s no danger in carrying ammo.
If it were illegal to carry around lots of weapons without being in a well-regulated militia, hence where police or other people would see you and go in that person’s probably up to no good, would that cause there to be less gun fidelities?
That’s not what the founders meant by “well regulated militia”.
https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment2.html
“Further, the Court found that the phrase “well regulated Militia” referred not to formally organized state or federal militias, but to the pool of able-bodied men who were available for conscription.15”
If some kid rolls up and does a school shooting do we hold their families responsible?
In the case of the Crumbleys? Yes.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/parents-michigan-high-school-shooter-ethan-crumbley-trial/story?id=98072544We don’t care the least about what the founders meant. Both parties consistently reinterpret the words to mean whatever Will keep them in power.
The things I wrote aren’t yes or no things they’re measures. They need to be investigated, studied, they need to be tried they need to see what effect the actually have. There’s a significant amount of pushback from gun rights advocates to not study those type of things for fear that some of them might actually work. And if you ask them why they say well they might not study it correctly they might just come up with whatever result they actually want to happen.
It’s pretty common for people who are anti-gun law to simply say this won’t work, that won’t work, it’s a pretty low barrier to entry argument. I don’t have any data but I don’t like the outcome so I’m just going to say it won’t work and that’s the whole argument
I would give my personal guarantee that implementing those would have an effect, the question is would any of them have enough of an effect to make it worth it. Hell, we’ve had police on site during shootings and they haven’t done a damn thing about what was going on. You don’t need any more indication than someone walking through a school shooting kids to know that they don’t need to be in there and need to be stopped.
They can’t be implemented because the Supreme Court has already made multiple key rulings o the topic since 2008 and have a few more in their case load for this year and next. It’s not going to get better, it will only get worse from here on out.
That used to be the case. But since they recently overturned Row v Wade, nothing is off the table anymore.
Agreed nothing is off the table, but the court has only turned more conservative, not less. So turnimg it back around may take another 50 years or more.
I’m honestly fine with guns being used to commit suicide but I draw the line at being used on anyone else.
Ya, it’s ok for people with mental disorders or extreme stress to have tools to readily available to kill themselves, in what is no doubt an informed, rational decision.
It’s my life partner, I don’t care if it’s, irrational, selfish, destruction of government property, etc.
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Cool.
Hmmm, I like this.
I would like an explanation from some of the people here touting the Second Amendment as an end-all and be-all to explain why it is that only in the past couple of decades has there been a huge gun proliferation. Shouldn’t the amount of guns have stayed relative to the population if this is only about the Second Amendment?
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It just bothers me that even so many people on the left are now absolutists when it comes to the Second Amendment.
Do you know where there was a ton of gun control? Back in the Old West. The “Wild West.”
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/gun-control-old-west-180968013/
Somehow there was more gun control back then than there is now.
It’s not about whether or not it checks out logically for you. That’s libtard thinking. It only matters that the 2A nuts get as many phallic objects in their possession as possible so you know that they do manly shit real good.
In my personal opinion, seems like a number of factors are at work. First, the second amendment has become more republican-coded, so republicans are probably more likely to purchase more guns than they would have. Second, the media’s sensationalism has constantly increased, so a lot of people consider a gun to be a prudent option - either viewing many cities to be hellholes, and the only way they would travel there is with a CCW, or seeing crazy people fighting over COVID supplies and thinking “maybe they’re coming for my toilet paper, better get a gun.” Third, a lot of firearm-curious people see the rise of the republicans arming up and feel like they have no choice but to also get a gun.
One concerning element in all of this is that even though there has been an increase in guns, it doesn’t seem like there has been a corresponding increase in gun ranges, so people are likely not achieving competence with their guns.
Im not saying 2a is perfect but when you have actions like we see from CA and NM politicians, it gives more fuel for the crazies to say “Look they are coming to take our guns” Also an extremely large majority of responsible gun owners agree that there needs to be more protections in place but are quickly turned off as soon as someone says certain firearms or accessories will be completely banned.
That in no way explains what I would like explained. Unless you are saying the ridiculous amount of gun proliferation in the last couple of decades are because of those gun regulating politicians, which I find hard to buy.
I does actually. What drives people to hoard things when they see headlines that an item is in limited supply? See the similarity? FOMO for the American consumer is a heluva drug.
Except people aren’t buying and hoarding a specific type or brand of gun. They’re just buying tons of guns overall. So that doesn’t make sense. If they were only buying AR-15s or something, that argument would work, but it doesn’t track.
They didn’t come for just a particular style of gun when they had the opportunity to come for guns. Look at New Orleans during Katrina, and you’ll be looking at the image that every person is picturing when they think of the government and its pursuit of guns.
They’ve been told for years that the government is going to take their guns. The carnival barkers on talk radio or other right wing platforms continue to rant about government overreach taking their guns and how there’s criminals around every corner needing to be defended against.
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In my opinion, it isn’t even valid.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State…”
Back then, a standing professional military was not expected. Militias were the expectation, be risen in times of need. This clearly is not true anymore, so the premise of the second amendment isn’t true, which should invidate the rest, right?
I’m not anti-gun. I enjoy shooting them. I’m pro-regulation though. There should be requirements for training in their usage, proper storage and handling, and the legality of their use before anyone can purchase them. This should be funded by taxes to ensure poor people aren’t less able to be armed than wealthier people.
I don’t care HOW MANY kids have to die NO ONE is coming after my gun that I hang on my wall loaded and never use but when people come to my house I can pretend my penis is big! Fuck your kids! I need my penis enlarger!
Here’s the trick… the Nashville shooter had no criminal record and bought the guns 100% legally. There is no gun restriction that would block someone who passes the background check from buying a gun.
BUT:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Nashville_school_shooting
“Hale was under care for an emotional disorder and had legally purchased seven firearms, including three recovered from the shooting scene, between October 2020 and June 2022.[1]”
If someone is under psychological care, should that be allowed to pop up on a background check? Maybe not as an instant disqualification the way a court ordered commitment or conviction would, but as an advisory note? Leave it to the discretion of the firearms seller? “By the way, this person is undergoing psych care, you could be held liable if they use this firearm in a crime.” That kind of thing?
Because right now, the only stuff that shows up on the background check are things that were ruled on by a judge, and sometimes not even all of those.
For example:
The guy who shot up Michigan State University:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Michigan_State_University_shooting
“McRae was arrested in June 2019 for carrying a weapon without a concealed pistol license.[38] Initially charged with a felony, he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor unlawful possession of a loaded firearm as part of a plea agreement in November 2019.[39] He was originally sentenced to twelve months’ probation, which was later extended to 18 months, and in May 2021, he was discharged from probation.[35] Because McRae was not convicted of a felony, his ban on possessing weapons ended with the end of his probation.[40]”
Arrested for a felony gun charge, pled out to a misdemeanor, did his time, did his probation, was allowed to buy guns again.
Had he been convicted of the felony, he would have been blocked from owning a gun. The misdemeanor was not a barrier and did not appear on the background check.
Maybe it should have? Maybe ANY gun charges, felony OR misdemeanor should bar you from gun ownership?
If you stigmatize psychological care by making it a black mark that shows up on your record, people will just avoid getting the help they need and society will be worse off for it.
Absolutely true.
So if we can’t ban guns because of the 2nd amendment, and we can’t report on psych care because that would drive people away from care, then what’s the answer? 🤔 I don’t see a way out of it unless you make mental health care and reporting mandatory.
The way out of it is improving all of the other parts of American life. Improve healthcare so we don’t have so many desperately unhealthy poor people. Tax the rich and regulate white collar noncrimes (and enforce the crimes) so we don’t have as many desperately poor people. Improve the availability of housing, reform the police, fund public schools and pay teachers a decent wage, idfk what to do with the media but that sucks too. Get rid of first past the post voting so people feel like they can actually enact change through their representatives.
Virtually every aspect of non-wealthy American life is currently “in a crisis” as reported by the media. Further reducing the rights that individuals have is not the answer to there being a surplus of people past their breaking point.
Looking at gun violence as a gun problem instead of a violence problem is shortsighted, when people have less access to guns than ever.
That’s actually a less likely scenario than fixing the 2nd Amendment. :)
Well, we already ignore most of the others in the name of “safety” so what’s one more.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The parents who testified spilled their own stories, but also carried the weight of representing and speaking for the six people — including three children — who were killed by a shooter on March 27 inside The Covenant School.
Throughout the corridors of many state Capitols, families are sharing emotionally gutting stories of tragedy caused by mass school shootings with the hope that revealing their trauma will convince lawmakers from either party to reconsider firearm policies.
Lawmakers in Florida’s Republican-controlled Legislature passed a series of gun control laws just three weeks after authorities say a mentally disturbed man killed 17 people in a shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland.
The legislation raised the gun-buying age to 21, imposed a three-day waiting period for purchases and let police seek court orders seizing guns from individuals considered a danger to themselves or others — a stronger “red flag” change than a Tennessee proposal that couldn’t even get a hearing.
In April, Kimberly Mata-Rubio waited for more than 12 hours at the Texas Capitol to testify that lawmakers should raise the purchase age for semiautomatic rifles like the one an 18-year-old gunman used to kill her daughter Lexi.
During one committee hearing, parents closely connected to the Covenant shooting audibly gasped, and some fled the room in tears, when Republican Rep. Chris Todd suggested that the shooter “probably would have driven over those kids” if they didn’t have a gun, as a way to dismiss that fewer firearms — rather than more — would have prevented the tragedy.
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