Like, seriously, went through the last 10 years spending a good chunk of my day on Twitter and Reddit using Chrome, and suddenly I’m on Lemmy/Mastodon on Firefox.
Firefox’s been better since Quantum.
It feels like much much faster than Chrome, not gonna lie.
And ram efficient
That is only because it doesn’t keep all tabs loaded in RAM all of the time though.
If you open the same pages with the same installed extensions on both you will see similar RAM usage. It is only on restoring sessions or longer-term sessions that you will see a difference because FF will reload the page when it is activated again where chrome will keep it in RAM.
At least that used to be the case.
I mean yes, that’s the main reason, but that doesn’t make it any less true. I like being able to have a couple extra tabs open just to have them there, not having them to use up resources seems kind of like a given.
This is my exact change. They want to shittify things I’ll switch or just stop using it. I’m at my breaking point.
Eerily feels like I wrote that comment.
Seriously… my oldest account on Reddit was 12 years old. I’ve been through so many changes that turned me off, but the API stuff was the last blow, and the CEO’s love for Elon Musk just sealed the deal.
Did not hear about that. He sucks, but Elmo sucks more.
Elmo sucks?
Lol I think he meant Elon.
Add me to the list with a side of furiously searching for security and privacy of cloud storage services and figuring out which Linux I want to use. I’m shaking my head at how complacent I got with my services. I always do my due diligence when starting to use anything but I somehow forgot to keep up in the past couple of years.
Do you miss anything?
I won’t lie that it’s been an adjustment. Old habits die hard. Reddit is the one that I am more certainly done with. No one is on Mastodon yet so I do browse Twitter a little bit to get updates on the stuff I like, but don’t interact there anymore.
I miss a lot of my niche content
Well, best thing to counter that is to be the change you want to see. Start the community for the niche you miss the most/know the most about. Post something daily for two weeks + do a call for mods, and before you know you’ll have at least some activity. I (helped) to bootstrap !openstreetmap@lemmy.ml this way, and the community has about 1 top level post per day on average now. Not a lot, but a good start.
I think a lot of people here don’t understand the danger of this fully and dismiss it with “Just use Firefox, problem solved”.
Unfortunately, once this becomes widely available, that is once Chrome ships it, websites will start to use it.
Maybe Amazon will just not sell to you anymore when you’re browsing with Firefox?
Maybe YouTube wont serve any videos if you’re using Linux?
Your bank will certainly implement this and only allow Windows 11 with Edge or some shit like that.
Once this is implemented, we will all suffer, even if we’re using better alternatives right now.Your bank will certainly implement this
My brother in Christ, it was 2020 before my bank supported passwords longer than 8 characters. We have 30 or 40 years before we need to worry about the banks.
Some banks are still running windows 98 internally, admitedly so long as said system isnt connected to the internet it should be fine.
Lol, not to mention Cobalt and other horrors that are lurking in Legacy systems no one has looked at in 50 years.
I’m thinking mainframe terminals, where the character has to be in the right place on the screen in order to store something in RAM.
Even worse, how many systems are still using punch cards? How often do those cards need to be replaced?
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I’m glad you’re liking it.
You may think so but hackers have managed to access data on air gapped computers
Win 98
This isn’t true, this can’t be true and I refuse to believe it.
I sincerely hope that your local ATM never crashes and you never have to see the windows xp logo.
@xavier666 @vaultdweler13, it’s true, For internal use with PCs connected to the central server itself and not to the network, it is used for compatibility with corporate software, sometimes still very old Windows. This, when using it on the one hand only in a specialized way and on the other hand only locally, is more than enough. The same in factories in production for the automation of some valve or machinery with repetitive processes, a super-pc with a NASA OS is not needed.
For PCs at workshop, I can understand Win98. The OS is just a bootloader to a single application. But for banking, it’s a terrible security hazard.
@xavier666, only if it is used in subsidiaries where they have to manage money movements over the network, but not in local administrative applications where it is irrelevant, as in all purely local uses. In monoapplications in this area, even an old MsDOS will be worth it.
They have traveled to the Moon with an SO from a Tamagochi.As long as it’s isolated to local use, I guess it’s fine. But if it connects to the internet, may lord have mercy on the firewall.
Have you ever rooted an android phone?
The google SafteyNet Attestation is the precursor to browser DRM. It’s essentially phone DRM.
There are many banks that have apps that require you to pass at least the basic level attestation, if not the CTS profile matching that fails the moment you modify any system level resources, even the bootloader
luckily you can force disable CTS so it falls back on the basic level, for most apps at least. You will never have access to Google or Samsung pay though, as it actually knows your phone model should support CTS and will autofail if it no longer reports that it does.
Alongside that apps like Pokemon GO and Netflix also require at least basic attestation to function - demonstrating the DRM and anticheat capabilities of such a system.
https://github.com/Magisk-Modules-Repo/MagiskHidePropsConf
This can help you pass CTS. It worked for me. Funny thing is, I don’t even remember which app I did it for. Whatever it was, I ended up not using it after all the trouble. As for my banking apps, they only care about root, so Magisk’s denylist does the job.
Nah, I’m still running a stock ROM on a pixel 3a. Looking at this guide, it looks like this tool is dead. So unless it works on android 12, I can’t use it.
Enabling strict denylist actually causes my phone to break, it will randomly cause my phone to freeze up, and fail to load on phone unlock to the point I have to go into safe boot to disable my Magisk modules, only then will it boot correctly. - maybe I’m denying the wrong system apps for strict mode to work. I have still added apps to the denylist, however.
Im currently using universal Safetynet Fix to pass basic Attestation, and the only thing that fails to work is google wallets “tap to pay” feature. Which doesn’t matter as my NFC reader is broken in any case.
Oh, I didn’t notice it’s dead. I just had it bookmarked because I remember spending a lot of time trying all sorts of workarounds before it and none of them ever worked (for CTS).
I used this for Android 11; there’s a good chance it’ll still work for that version. But like I said, I ended up not needing it anyway - my phone doesn’t even have NFC! I think I mostly just did it as a FU to Google rather than for actual utility. :D
Just thought it worth mentioning that there are/were workarounds for CTS. Don’t know how things are now on Android 12 and 13.
I find it funny how the most root-resistant app I’ve ever encountered is McDonald’s coupons app. I can trick Google Pay into working on my rooted phone, I tricked Revolut and two national banks. Heck, even my government-issued digital ID was tricky but I eventually got it working despite root and unlocked bootloader, both of which it didn’t like. But McDonald’s? None of the workarounds work whatsoever .
I’m rooted and on LOS and can use any app I need (including banking apps, paypal, and netflix - i don’t use samsung/google pay). The only app i can’t get to work is one stupid food delivery app. It’s weird af.
Yes, US banks.
Banks in europe are much more up to date with tech.
They have APIs to sink transactions with external providers like nordigen API.
They have 2FA that is linked to your national identity card which is chipped
Nationally used apps that are universal 2FA linked to national IDs that banks, medical, and government services all tap into
Everything is contactless payment nowadays, the US just recently started contactless cards
Inter-bank transfers without external apps like venmo
There are MANY problems with EU people getting their banks to work on a rooted phone.
They will absolutely implement DRM if someone sells the bullshit to them under the illusion of “safety.”
Hell, the US had handwritten “vaccine cards” for covid while European nations even had open source user spinoffs on nationally funded apps linked to national IDs to manage COVID vaccination and testing passes.
Technically the idea is that if Chrome has barely any market share (will never happen, but let’s pretend), they cannot implement this as it will anger and lock too many users out of day to day life.
However…
With Google Search and YouTube being by far the most 2 popular websites in the world, I think they still could. The vast majority of people would never give those up and if they’re told to use another program to access them, they absolutely will, meaning in an ideal world with a browser competition, they can easily destroy it immediately.
Google search has become very bad and is easily replaced by basically any search engine. YouTube is still unparalleled though.
It’s IE6 all over again.
Did Firefox even say that they would not implement it as well? Are there any informations on that?
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Doesn’t that also mean they lose customers or possible transactions which could have made them money?
I wonder if that would be a valid anti trust violition ?
If we lived in a sane country all 4 major tech companies would have already been brought to court over this in like, 2016. (Microsoft for the second time…)
To be fair to America, I don’t think there are any sane countries left. Finland had an actual neo-Nazi as minister and while it didn’t last longer than Truss or even half of it, the party that is ministerial party is still there with similar ideas. They just had forethought to not write 14/88 in an old electoral ad. We are tied for first place still in the least corrupt countries and 5th in most democratic countries.
Would apple just roll over on this? Or would they fight to make sure safari is also an option to freely use the internet (or at least severely limiting apples ability to do something similar) And websites that depend on ads, the number of Firefox and safari users have to be greater than the number of users who use ad-blockers. So wouldn’t it negatively affect ad income on websites if they implemented it and cut out all non-chromium browsers?
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I think apple would figure out some very creative ways to fuck it’s customers, some more.
Just use Firefox, Mozilla already put their stance forward as opposing this garbage
Firefox is faster than chrome anyway nowadays.
Nowadays? I think you mean since always :)
I get your sentiment, but chrome 1 was crazy fast and seemed barely functional coming from a world of toolbars for most people.
At the time people were like “I can’t use this, there’s only this search bar”
That may be true on desktop. But, unfortunately, the mobile app is way behind chromium. From being unresponsive, to outright buggy. It’s not a good experince. It’s been 2 years since the rewrite but it’s not getting much better or even close to fixing most of its issue. Meaning, using firefox on android is a handicap on yourself.
Gonna need some statistics on this, because your anecdotal experience is not at all like mine. FF is totally useable on Android.
Ditto, I barely noticed the switch.
The only inconvenience is that it doesn’t prefill my credit card details, which is probably a good thing from both a security and hip pocket angle anyway
Good and bad news: You can easily add credit cards to autofill on Firefox too. It’s under Settings -> Privacy and Security.
I have used Firefox on many smartphones since 2014. It’s not an anecdotal experience of mine. It’s the difference between chromium based browsers on android being more efficient compared to Firefox. Here’s the github issue which was open from 2020, now moved to Bugzilla: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/12731#event-8105829420
If this did not happen it would not have been kept open for so long. Just search tab reload in closed issues you will people still complaining while the repo was accessible.
Bugzilla issue from 2 years ago: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1752594
The migrated issue from github: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1807364
Thanks for the concrete reply! I assume if this bug is affecting me it’s just not enough of an issue to be noticable on my hardware (Pixel 5)
Ive used FF on my android phone for years and had no noteworthy issues the entire time, not sure what youre on about
I’m talking about the tab reload issue. Check my reply to other comment. Where I link issues. Basically you cannot fill forms, multi task or do stuff without the tab reloading on you. This issue has been ongoing since 2020. I changed phones but this issue did not change once. Permalink to that comment: https://lemmy.ml/comment/2013238
Ive never had any issue like that to be honest, and I have been using FF literally daily for years. Most of my social circle are yucky apple product users so I haven’t even heard of this issue until now. Im sorry you and other people have it because tbh FF is basically perfect, at least for what I need it for
Thanks for acknowledging the issue. I’m on android which could make some difference. I install Firefox with ublock origin as good adblocking solution for others. Most do not appear to notice this issue so it’s not a problem. Hopefully, it’s fixed for the ones experiencing this issue.
That has not been my experience with FF on mobile and my phone is a few years old
Honestly I see smartphones as a downgrade to computers in general. If I want something done digitally, I’ll always prefer doing it on a PC.
I use it because I can use it to block ads. If a page doesn’t work, I’ll use chrome.
I actually use Chrome on Windows. I just dislike ads more than I like Chrome.
I am basically the same. I’m loving the ability to use uBlock Origin across phone and desktop and practically never see ads, but some sites just don’t work for me in Firefox. Like anything where I have signed up with my Google account, or my online banking. In which case I have Chrome installed as a backup. If I could purge it completely I would, but this works for now.
As someone who has used Firefox on Android for 9 years plus… “lol, wut?!”
It was bad, 7 years ago, and has been solid for at least 4 years.
Are you kidding?! Firefox on android isn’t just better than Chrome in feature set, as it has been for like a decade, it’s been faster than Chrome for at least a year, in my personal experience.
Yeah, to be honest the FF Android experience just can’t match Chromium.
I don’t really NEED to, so I’m not switching from Firefox anytime soon, but I wish they’d at least fix recently closed tabs reappearing every time I reopen the darned thing…
Honestly this is just depressing. And a little scary ?
Corporate greed is taking new heights and the things we took for granted are being taken away. It is all so dystopic…
Yeet.
The rulers figured out the internet is too dangerous to their power. They thought they could control it and us, and they did for a long time, but it’s not working anymore. Now they are cracking down on our ability to communicate, to prevent ideas from spreading and taking hold that they cannot tolerate.
? They’re just following the end game of capitalism, they’re trying to squeeze every last bit of profit out of the internet that they can, it has nothing to do with the internet “threatening” power, they already took care of that with all of the spying laws they passed when the internet started getting popular
Maybe, but capitalism has been the case the entire time, why is social media globally melting down in 2023?
Also, spying laws are not necessarily effective at containing the spread of ideas.
interest rate hikes, VCs are demanding their money back and companies are scrambling to become profitable/more profitable.
Edit: forgot to address the other point, they don’t really care about us spreading ideas as long as we don’t actually threaten their power. There is absolutely 0 threat of a socialist revolution anywhere in the west right now
I’m not speaking of socialist revolution. There’s a whole spectrum between licking boots and socialist revolution that is mostly ignored online. There are many ways people can threaten power, even just using Lemmy instead of Reddit. Here the conversations and our attention are not directed by profit and power seeking interests.
Here the conversations and our attention are not directed by profit and power seeking interests.
I agree Lemmy is better. But, can you really be sure that every post and comment on this platform is made by a real person with no hidden agenda?
No, never, but that’s not necessarily the biggest problem. I think the algorithms were a bigger problem, and we don’t have that here (at least not secret profit driven ones).
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Capitalism is on a regular decline. It’s typically good for development, then after the dust settles it declines.
I don’t think the “spying laws” are what makes the internet controlled. It’s the constant, huge waves of misinformation and weak thought, which are enabled by those “spying laws”, among others ways. Just my two cents, tho.
That’s fair, didn’t think of that in the moment
“the rulers” dude, this isn’t D&D
Oh my bad, obviously there are no ultra wealthy people with power boners able to use their fortunes to get their way.
You’ve done it, the bourgeoisie are no more!
Nope… it’s far worse.
For the millionth time, Stallman was right.
Yep, you send me html, my browser can interpret it any way that I want it to. If I want to ignore all of the image and script tags, I can. I don’t need Chrome or even Chromium. As Stallman says, you should know what is running on your system.
We need to go back to html and css. Using an ad blocker and noscript literally breaks webpages. I just want to read the article! You know the content ppl actually come for
But how is all the bloat going to get to you then? HTML with some images is equally functional and loads in a fraction of the time, because it is actually efficient. Nobody could want that could they?
How the fuck are people using the internet without an adblocker?
It is pracitcally impossible to differentiate content from ads. And i was just talking about all the bloat without the ads. Thank you for sharing this, i never thought it’d be this bad.
It’s such a bizarre situation. Either you heavily limit Javascript and basically destroy all web apps or you embrace it and get laughably slow websites with walls of ads that beg you to log in to actually view the page. Like if you look into it, it’s genuinely shocking how much software is a web browser running JS under the hood.
I can see legitimate uses for java script, like popping out a menu. But it seriously needs its capabilities restricted.
You can pop out menus with CSS.
needs its capabilities restricted
This is a bad take. How are you gonna do that? Force ECMA to scrap all the functionality deemed ‘bad’? Wave a magic tech wand? At the end of the day JS is a tool, and like any tool it can be abused for nefarious purposes. The issue is that advertisers abuse this tool, and the sites they pay to be shown on allow it. Not because insert scripting language exists.
It just occured to me that I wonder how a text browser addresses all this
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/25/voters-progressive-trump-harvard-youth-poll-gop/
Just tried it on browsor
That doesn’t mean his strategy and approach is good.
That doesn’t mean his strstegy and approach is good.
Who cares? Whether or not Stallman is a likeable person isn’t what’s important. His ideas are.
The way he presents them and approaches certain subjects is what’s offputting. He’s got this black and white atitude towards the world and how things work, when in reality, everything is just a shade of gray.
Could you give an example?
He says IoT devices are bad. He says most Linux distros are bad just cuz they don’t use everything GPL licensed in them. Says don’t use this, don’t use that, yet the alternatives to what he proposes are… just no usable in the 21st century. Read pages in plain HTML, yeah right 😒.
It’s the lingo he uses, he marks everything as bad, except for GNU or GPL licensed software. And that is off putting to most people and is why many new projects don’t even use the GPL any more, they use MIT or BSD quite more often. The complete lack of any legal support for GPL projects from the FSF is also another reason. “There are just too many, we don’t have enough lawers”. Have you ever thought about, IDK, paying those people? Like you win one lawsuit, make a deal with the owner of the licensed work for him/her to invest part of the winning over to the FSF in order to actually pay these lawers and other people involved in the process. Do the same with every case, and you have yourself a sustainable system. No one wins this way, except those who infrindged the GPL license.
My 2 cents… doesn’t mean that I’m right, but these are one of my personal reasons why I steer away from the FSF and RMS. These people are stuck in bitterness and grudges, no real insentive to offer a viable alternative whatsoever. It’s like the Pale Moon project, except PM is much worse.
That’s the price of internal consistency. Nothing you say is an argument against any of his points, you just don’t want to give up the comforts you’ve gotten used to over the last decades. I get it, I don’t want to either, but our lack of commitment is precisely why companies are able to abuse users so freely.
He’s not giving viable alternatives! He just says “don’t use this, don’t do that”. That’s not constructive at all, just the opposite.
Times have changed, people change, technology changes. I was against using a smart device up until about 3 or 4 years ago, until I realized how way way behind I was behind everyone and how practical it can be. While everyone was just carrying around their phone and took pics of things that they needed to remember, I had to do the same with a camera… not to mention I had to remember to bring it with me every time I might need it (and you can’t always know upfront if you’re gonna need it or not). On the other hand, my phone is always with me, regardless if I need a camera or not.
This is just an example, there are so many other examples that make life easier. RMS and the FSF has nothing to offer, nothing to put on the table as a viable alternative, except “don’t use that”. They could have so much money flowing into the FSF just by copyright lawsuits, they could practically be swimming in money, but no, they decide to do everything on a volentary basis. You can’t win if the playing field is always tilted towards the corps. You can only win if you play with their rules, and their rules are, invest money! They can have enough money to invest in devs as well, devs that will probably make a viable alternative of an OS to actually run on phones and be completely open sources, but… no, that’s against their practices and beliefs 😒.
Well, I’m sorry but, you don’t offer anything, just forbid things. Maybe I really don’t want to use this or that technology, but it makes my life easier, so I’d rather use it than not 🤷. Saying “don’t do this, don’t do that” is the exact same mentality that PM has regarding stuff that doesn’t work with the browser. “Just don’t visit those sites”. What? It’s a browser, it fails at it’s primary purpose, to browse websites. I’m sorry, but that is unacceptable. When your product doesn’t fulfill it’s primary purpose and your only reaction is “just don’t do that”, you need to seriously rethink what you’re doing and in which direction this project is going.
Stop using chrome. Yes brave is chrome
@nicman24 firefox is not chromium…
Gecko, the underlying engine behind Firefox, is an entirely different code base from Chromium
Firefox doesn’t use chromium. It uses Gecko, which is an entirely separate codebase.
Firefox uses their own engine IIRC, that’s why more people should be using it so we can get some competition with Chromium.
I think the management’s recent decisions, as well as the removal/lack of power-user features for those users, have moved a lot of people away from Firefox, myself included. They really need to focus on providing really good software, not get caught up in trying to chase trends or forcing services people don’t want. This WIRED article does a good job explaining the issues.
I am keeping an eye on Pulse Browser, which is an experimental fork of Firefox with uBlock Origin pre-installed and some UI customisations. They’ve got a sidebar with “web panels” very much like Vivaldi’s Panels, and they’ve got vertical tabs like Edge. People also seem to be posting suggestions to their discussion page on GitHub. It’s early days, but if they listen and try to implement some of the suggested features to their best ability, it could be a much better Firefox than Firefox itself.
Edit: From Pulse’s Discord, I just found out Mozilla bought Fakespot and are integrating that into Firefox. Some people are definitely going to think that’s bloat.
Yeah but if you dont support Mozilla Firefox the project will run out of resources and only one engine will be left chromium.
But that’s also not private as has been claimed as a reason to go FF. The only reason to use FF is only to not use chrome. Not for all the reasons that chrome is bad.
Tor Browser, LibreWolf, and Arkenfox JS are the most secure and private browsers you can get and they’re all based on Firefox. If they’re not private enough for you, I don’t know what is
I’m used to dealing with DRM, too. If it can be stripped out of a game or other software, it could be stripped out of the internet itself. Maybe some of the old cracking scenes that quit due to boredom will return for the challenge.
You can be sure as hell they will. If greater the force, the greater the resistance.
It’s interesting to think about from a technological point of view, and there could be multiple ingress points to combat it.
The proposal doesn’t have a complete implementation, but it in essence they want websites to ask browsers for a key if sorts (attestation). In theory this flow would be a lot like hoe notifications work. Keeping that in mind, when the website asks the browser, what’s stopping us from making our own attestation server?
Analog hole exists and will be prevalent on new internet unless they push DRM monitor https://xkcd.com/129/
We’ll make out own internet! With blackjack and hookers!
You know what, forget the internet!
You jest but I’m feeling pretty ready to switch to mesh networking. I’d rather have a libre internet than faster bandwidth.
tbh I’m just tired of all of this, we can’t have nice things, ever… Every fucking thing in this world is being swallowed by corporate greed. Every service there’s a catch, and I’m getting mad with it, things aren’t made to serve their purpose, they only exist to make money and more money for people who already have infinite money, it’s frustrating. Things need to change or everything is going to collapse… fuck companies, fuck billionaires, fuck stocks, fuck all of this
Well, well, well, would you look at that? We’ve done full circle, haven’t we? It’s time to go back to the old internet again.
back to usenet i guess lmao
Time to go smol.
We saw the mass adoption of the internet, which before was mostly used by a small group of techies. Now we might be heading to a split: The mass walled garden and a separate smaller but free internet.
The next internet will be Phoenix: born from the ashes of the old, dead internet
Unless things get really bad really fast and internet becomes so locked down you cant download anything that bypasses restrictions (vpn, tor, proxy)
“What’s internet? It it like Googlenet but worse?”
-Some kid in the future
For those interested in actively opposing this - the following blog offers some advice on how to do so.
https://blog.yoav.ws/posts/web_platform_change_you_do_not_like/
cool, but occums razor doesnt work for tech corps
*Okham’s razor
*Dwight Yoakum’s Razor
One more time if anyone says that capitalism breeds innovation we need to show them this ¡!
restricted capitalism does that. regular capitalism makes monopoly.
Does it though? Universities seem to be doing the heavily lifting innovation-wise.
Well yes, but universities certainly do not stop Nestlé from selling their own products so cheap that local businesses (which refused to get bought up by Nestlé) go bankrupt because they can not sell their only product with a loss.
I was responding to the first half “restricted capitalism does that”
What’s your point? Monopoly does not imply innovation.
My point is that captialism doesn’t have as big a role in innovation as many would claim.
Captialism also leads to monopoly when unchecked. I was responding to the first half.
This ain’t capitalism, this is going back to a rent based economy.
Aka: Techno Feudalism
Let me just point you to this:
https://doctorow.medium.com/autoenshittification-cb851c2574fb
Paywall!
This is innovation though, an internet wide DRM would be quite an impressive technical feat. It’s just not innovation built to benefit you and me, it’s built to benefit Google’s true customers, advertisers
Oh almost like if in capitalism they didn’t say that oligarchys are a problem. What we needed is to send these giants down.
That would prove difficult considering money rules, you can make people do you bidding, make them disappear and suffer little to no consequences.
So what we needed is a decent anti-monopoly, anti-oligarchy force.
Just like when the us gov dismantled AT&T into thousands of smaller different services and that created things like mobile routhers and etc.
Soo the companies like Google (for example), at this point are putting down more inovation than they are bringing into the table.
Problem is not capitalism, it’s all that power centered in the same place. Almost like a dictatorship.
The problem isn’t capitalism, it’s just the system that allows power to be centralized through market forces and used to bribe regulatory bodies. Oh wait…
Shit man I would love to hear how you would stop power concentration in communism or any other form of government…
Well that was when anti trust laws actually worked ! Alphabet , meta etc are literally sucking americans poor. Still we dont see anything !
Tbh as a Climat activist who grew up surrounded by deniers …yhe… the feeling of hopeless is strong. But hey I have been seeing slow and gradual change, when things are getting bad.
At least in your scenario (at the moment) when they go down we might be able to reverse the worse consequences. Unlike climate where we probably just fucked.
Our planet has had good and bad climates , but humans have fucked it intentionally and there seems to be nor reluctance or remorse in the rich to fuck it even more , it will probably end in jeopardising human life , mostly the poor will suffer and die , but i am quite sure that planet will find ways to recover ! Once the humans are gone !
Oh for fuck sake, yes when I say planet I mean the delicate ecosystem that supports all life. See even better I still get downvoated by shit heads
So you want government to do this?
Anarchy please
