That doesn’t help at all. We are complicit.

No citizenship ever has been in a better position to prevent their government from doing horrible things, and yet we do nothing. We wring our hands and aren’t willing to hurt, let alone die, for what is morally right. The small arms in this country are more than enough to overwhelm the entire place. We have the numbers and the weapons and yes some would have to die. This isn’t even special though, all throughout history people have died for principles, it’s just… we don’t have any.

Have you ever read Of Mice and Men?

Sometimes we have to do hard things.

I disagree with the thinking for yourself part.

I honestly believe that “American independence” has a lot to do with the current state of the system. Bowing to your friends knowledge on a subject is frowned upon. Folding one’s position is seen as weak.

Every day laborer is told they should “form their own opinion”. As if they are anywhere near educated and informed enough to form a conclusion on some of these complex topics.

So that’s one problem.

The next is that money talks. Money informs and money is in the hands of capitalists. They further their ends and have controlled what people thought for a very long time. It is extremely telling to see my grandmother receive the newspaper and go through it like a YouTube conspiracy video. All orchestrated to bring your thought pattern to a predetermined conclusion. Moving forward and backward from there…

What was before that? Town criers? “Go tell the people the news, tell them xyz”.

And after that of course it’s the same just with data aggregation, mining, and algorithms. “Move the opinion 5% in the aggregate in this direction”.

I wish people would be more comfortable identifying experts in their actual social groups and letting people specialize and disperse opinion for the good of the group. They THINK they are but they are not. Often times people sharing something they believe with their friends is not malicious it’s just they are stupid. Like letting me know that the earth is flat this really good guy who is plainly not smart recently did. Like wtf? How does this happen? How do we fix this?

I have no solutions… but independent thought isn’t it I don’t think.

Off the top of my head Andre Norton is completely overlooked in this thread. Like… what?

Mercedes lackey.

Cj Cherryh.

Katherine Kurtz.

This will probably get me whacked…

Or has the historical narrative been rewritten so thoroughly, and public opinion directed so well, that… well no no we can’t say that out loud.

But I mean has this been the behavior of millennia? Does capitalism even exist in its current form without usury?

At this point I am pretty comfortable saying glass Israel. If there was a vote right now I’d say just do it. You can’t just be complicit and benefit from these horrible things and expect complete absolution. That’s pretty extreme and a worldwide ban of Israel, dissolution, a ban on any sort of theocratic or quasi-theocratic state and anything looking like it would be mandatory. I don’t think that would work in practice though, just more lies would be the result. “God promised us this land” is a mental disorder at best and more likely a blatant “you can’t outright say I am lying” high school level lie in practice.

The embarrassment and shame of being Zionist like Germany had over nazism is absolutely necessary though. I’m just not sure that was as well placed as we think. Currently we discuss the nazis persecution of Jewish people as “that’s just crazy and sick, how could anyone do such a thing” while Zion exists and is shamelessly genociding a people while overtly manipulating the gentiles as if we are animals. Is this the behavior pre ww2? Was this telegraphed? I believe so.

As a complete aside, and I am very interested and empathize with the Romani people, I am fascinated by their ability to see non Romani as (insert however they actually see us here) and include their children in their hustles. Like how do you explain to kids that it’s us against the world(literally) and we are allowed to lie and manipulate them at all costs? This thought occurred to me when I was helping a nice family who apparently had ran out of gas. The kid was doing their part with the sad eyes and all that. I would love to chat with a gypsy(with all due respect) to get some insights on their culture.

I can’t help but draw a parallel there though. Nazi persecution of peoples who see themselves as apart and those two groups overt exploitation of those who are not of their culture. Zionists simply being much more successful as of now.

I kinda see extreme measures being required to get these people(zionists) to stop being necessary. And where is the line? How is that accomplished?

I dunno but more and more being disgusted with this farce in Palestine I can’t help but reflect on this…

Me too! I have been browsing for a month or two and Reddit finally had enough of my “violent rhetoric”. This is like my second post.

So what I am gathering is that here I CAN say that I believe that the only solution to capitalism is a revolution so violent and thorough that Mao would be uncomfortable?

Or nah?

Nah I disagree. They don’t care about anything specific so long as the population of sheep is robust. They need to shear at their leisure.

They don’t actually care what the sheep do, who the sheep fuck or who fucks the sheep. They are just sheep. There isn’t a moral component at all. It’s a sham to get the sheep signed on.

Capitalists see themselves as a different species.

And yes I understand that I am a sheep.