Gotta be honest with you, arguments about colonization kind of ring hollow when they were literally the original tribes living there and then had their lands colonized away from them, but still form a cohesive ethnic group thousands of years later. Unless we’ve started to impose some arbitrary statute of limitations I’m not aware on colonialism so that we exclude Israel from being colonized and the Jews exiled? Denying Jews rights would be par for the course throughout history I guess. I condemn acts of genocide, but I’m not going to say Jews don’t have some rights to the territory.
The same people saying Jews are colonizers will also talk about how literally any other ethnic group (especially Native Americans) should be given their land rights back. Their reasoning gives me a headache because it’s cognitively dissonant, and I’ve had a few agree and realize the situation is much more complicated and nuanced after I pointed the double standard out to them.
If we want to criticize the Israel state and their military for their policies and actions, giddy up. I’m on board. If we want to have discussions about colonialism, sorry, but I’m getting off this ride because I can’t justify moralizing over it
Current Palestinians are native to the land, they are descendent of the “early Jew”. They might change language or religion to be: Palestinians Jew, Arab Jew, Palestinians Christian, or Palestinians Muslims Arab.
In fact reading about European Jew Genetics say they are different:
“Genetic studies indicate that Ashkenazim have Levantine and European (mainly southern European) ancestry. They draw diverging conclusions about the degree and sources of European admixture; some focus on the European genetic origin in Ashkenazi maternal lineages, which contrasts with the predominantly Middle Eastern genetic origin in paternal lineages.”
Further more they were not “exiled”:
“Jews migrated to southern Europe from the Middle East voluntarily for opportunities in trade and commerce. Following Alexander the Great’s conquests, Jews migrated to Greek settlements in the Eastern Mediterranean, spurred on by economic opportunities. Jewish economic migration to southern Europe is also believed to have occurred during the Roman period.”
Even then, the reason why they are occupier is because they act that way, they commited multiple documented massacres, admited by their own soldiers, and refuse the right for people who fled war to comeback.
Reading about colonization of North America gave a lot of insight and the similarities are fucked up.
What even worse is, the literally desrroy people farms and homes and kick them out to live there, compare to North America where people might lived in new cities.
Here read about the village that become a resort and they build a car park on top of mass graves.
The Tantura massacre took place on the night of 22–23 May 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, when around 40-200 Palestinian Arab villagers from Tantura were massacred by the Alexandroni Brigade, which would shortly thereafter become part of the newly formed Israeli Defense Force. The massacre occurred following Tantura’s surrender, a village of roughly 1,500 people in 1945 located near Haifa. The victims were buried in a mass grave, which today serves as a car park for the nearby Tel Dor beach.
Jews migrated to southern Europe from the Middle East voluntarily for opportunities in trade and commerce. Following Alexander the Great’s conquests, Jews migrated to Greek settlements in the Eastern Mediterranean, spurred on by economic opportunities. Jewish economic migration to southern Europe is also believed to have occurred during the Roman period.
This is sort of disingenuous because even your own article talks about many other reasons for the migrations that you’re leaving out.
Jews left ancient Israel for a number of causes, including a number of push and pull factors. More Jews moved into these communities as a result of wars, persecution, unrest, and for opportunities in trade and commerce.
In 63 BCE, the Siege of Jerusalem saw the Roman Republic conquer Judea, and thousands of Jewish prisoners of war were brought to Rome as slaves. After gaining their freedom, they settled permanently in Rome as traders.[64] It is likely that there was an additional influx of Jewish slaves taken to southern Europe by Roman forces after the capture of Jerusalem by the forces of Herod the Great with assistance from Roman forces in 37 BCE. It is known that Jewish war captives were sold into slavery after the suppression of a minor Jewish revolt in 53 BCE, and some were probably taken to southern Europe.[65]
The first and second centuries CE saw a series of unsuccessful large-scale Jewish revolts against Rome. The Roman suppression of these revolts led to wide-scale destruction, a very high toll of life and enslavement. The First Jewish-Roman War (66–73 CE) resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Temple. Two generations later, the Bar Kokhba Revolt (132–136 CE) erupted. Judea’s countryside was devastated, and many were killed, displaced or sold into slavery.[69][70][71][72] Jerusalem was rebuilt as a Roman colony under the name of Aelia Capitolina, and the province of Judea was renamed Syria Palaestina.[73][74] Jews were prohibited from entering the city on pain of death. Jewish presence in the region significantly dwindled after the failure of the Bar Kokhba revolt.[75]
With their national aspirations crushed and widespread devastation in Judea, despondent Jews migrated out of Judea in the aftermath of both revolts, and many settled in southern Europe. In contrast to the earlier Assyrian and Babylonian captivities, the movement was by no means a singular, centralized event, and a Jewish diaspora had already been established before.
During both of these rebellions, many Jews were captured and sold into slavery by the Romans. According to the Jewish historian Josephus, 97,000 Jews were sold as slaves in the aftermath of the first revolt.[76] In one occasion, Vespasian reportedly ordered 6,000 Jewish prisoners of war from Galilee to work on the Isthmus of Corinth in Greece.[77] Jewish slaves and their children eventually gained their freedom and joined local free Jewish communities.[78]
Jews migrated at various times throughout their history, either through direct exile or religious persecution that resulted in migrations. Some notable events are these:
The Assyrian captivity (or the Assyrian exile) is the period in the history of ancient Israel and Judah during which several thousand Israelites from the Kingdom of Israel were forcibly relocated by the Neo-Assyrian Empire.
Archaeological studies have revealed that, although the city of Jerusalem was utterly destroyed, other parts of Judah continued to be inhabited during the period of the exile. Most of the exiled did not return to their homeland, instead travelling westward and northward. Many settled in what is now northern Israel, Lebanon, and Syria. The Iraqi Jewish, Persian Jewish, Georgian Jewish, and Bukharan Jewish communities are believed to derive their ancestry in large part from these exiles; these communities have now largely immigrated to Israel.[6][7]
The Temple was on the site of what today is the Dome of the Rock. The gates led out close to Al-Aqsa Mosque (which came much later).[32] Although Jews continued to inhabit the destroyed city, Emperor Hadrian established a new city called Aelia Capitolina. At the end of the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 CE, many of the Jewish communities were massacred and Jews were banned from living inside Jerusalem.[28] A pagan Roman temple was set up on the former site of Herod’s Temple.
The genetics thing is more or less true implying there was still a continuity of people in the region, although Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Christians are still closer genetically to the Jewish diaspora than Palestinian Arabs, who seem to see themselves as culturally and ethnically distinct from Jews (and vice versa), despite all evidence to the contrary.
All Jewish groups were found to be genetically closer to each other than to Palestinians and Muslim Kurds. Kurdish, North African Sephardi, and Iraqi Jews were found to be genetically indistinguishable while slightly but significantly differing from Ashkenazi Jews. In relation to the region of the Fertile Crescent, the same study noted; “In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors”, which the authors suggested was due to migration and admixture from the Arabian Peninsula into certain current Arabic-speaking populations during the period of Islamic expansion.[30]
I guess the question is whether Jews and Palestinians can reconcile things based on their shared history and genetic grounds following Arabization. I’m definitely not saying Palestinians have no right to those lands either, but the current situation most definitely is in part the result of colonization of the Jews/Palestinians at various points throughout their history. So I still feel it’s odd to call them colonizers depending on how far back your lens of history goes.
Does that mean people should be slaughtering each other? No, absolutely not. I’ll read up on Tantura.
Gotta be honest with you, arguments about colonization kind of ring hollow when they were literally the original tribes living there and then had their lands colonized away from them, but still form a cohesive ethnic group thousands of years later. Unless we’ve started to impose some arbitrary statute of limitations I’m not aware on colonialism so that we exclude Israel from being colonized and the Jews exiled? Denying Jews rights would be par for the course throughout history I guess. I condemn acts of genocide, but I’m not going to say Jews don’t have some rights to the territory.
The same people saying Jews are colonizers will also talk about how literally any other ethnic group (especially Native Americans) should be given their land rights back. Their reasoning gives me a headache because it’s cognitively dissonant, and I’ve had a few agree and realize the situation is much more complicated and nuanced after I pointed the double standard out to them.
If we want to criticize the Israel state and their military for their policies and actions, giddy up. I’m on board. If we want to have discussions about colonialism, sorry, but I’m getting off this ride because I can’t justify moralizing over it
deleted by creator
Wtf you are talking about?
Millions died in deconlization wars throughout the regions and you say “it is fine with them”!
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
That’s misleading.
Current Palestinians are native to the land, they are descendent of the “early Jew”. They might change language or religion to be: Palestinians Jew, Arab Jew, Palestinians Christian, or Palestinians Muslims Arab.
You can read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians#%3A~%3Atext%3DIn_recent_years%2C_genetic_studies%2Care_related_to_each_other.?wprov=sfla1
In fact reading about European Jew Genetics say they are different:
“Genetic studies indicate that Ashkenazim have Levantine and European (mainly southern European) ancestry. They draw diverging conclusions about the degree and sources of European admixture; some focus on the European genetic origin in Ashkenazi maternal lineages, which contrasts with the predominantly Middle Eastern genetic origin in paternal lineages.”
Further more they were not “exiled”:
“Jews migrated to southern Europe from the Middle East voluntarily for opportunities in trade and commerce. Following Alexander the Great’s conquests, Jews migrated to Greek settlements in the Eastern Mediterranean, spurred on by economic opportunities. Jewish economic migration to southern Europe is also believed to have occurred during the Roman period.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#%3A~%3Atext%3DEarly_Jewish_communities_in_Europe%2C-Beginning_in_the%26text%3DJews_migrated_to_southern_Europe%2Cspurred_on_by_economic_opportunities.?wprov=sfla1
Even then, the reason why they are occupier is because they act that way, they commited multiple documented massacres, admited by their own soldiers, and refuse the right for people who fled war to comeback.
Reading about colonization of North America gave a lot of insight and the similarities are fucked up.
What even worse is, the literally desrroy people farms and homes and kick them out to live there, compare to North America where people might lived in new cities.
Here read about the village that become a resort and they build a car park on top of mass graves.
The Tantura massacre took place on the night of 22–23 May 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, when around 40-200 Palestinian Arab villagers from Tantura were massacred by the Alexandroni Brigade, which would shortly thereafter become part of the newly formed Israeli Defense Force. The massacre occurred following Tantura’s surrender, a village of roughly 1,500 people in 1945 located near Haifa. The victims were buried in a mass grave, which today serves as a car park for the nearby Tel Dor beach.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantura_massacre?wprov=sfla1
But that’s also misleading.
This is sort of disingenuous because even your own article talks about many other reasons for the migrations that you’re leaving out.
Jews migrated at various times throughout their history, either through direct exile or religious persecution that resulted in migrations. Some notable events are these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple#Destruction
There were events such as these of compulsory migrations along with voluntary ones motivated by religious persecution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora
The genetics thing is more or less true implying there was still a continuity of people in the region, although Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Christians are still closer genetically to the Jewish diaspora than Palestinian Arabs, who seem to see themselves as culturally and ethnically distinct from Jews (and vice versa), despite all evidence to the contrary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Paternal_line
I guess the question is whether Jews and Palestinians can reconcile things based on their shared history and genetic grounds following Arabization. I’m definitely not saying Palestinians have no right to those lands either, but the current situation most definitely is in part the result of colonization of the Jews/Palestinians at various points throughout their history. So I still feel it’s odd to call them colonizers depending on how far back your lens of history goes.
Does that mean people should be slaughtering each other? No, absolutely not. I’ll read up on Tantura.