Thoughts? I live in a wintery biome so having awd gives me a bit of peace of mind
I think I agree with you. The author mentions AWD in snow as a minor passing thing in a way you can tell they haven’t lived somewhere with it.
But that said I haven’t driven an EV and I’d be worried about the extra direct torque they can provide making starting on ice or snowpack more difficult and dangerous.
I’ve owned two EVs, and that instant torque is much more of a pro than a con, even in the snow. Think about traction control: when the computer detects a loss of traction, it cuts power to the motor until it detects traction has been regained. In a gas powered car, you can really only change the flow of gas a couple times per second, because there’s some delay between applying throttle, waiting for ignition, etc. But in an EV, you can modulate the power upwards of a thousand times per second, and it gets applied to the wheels practically instantly. So when you slip in the snow, the traction control can react far faster.
My first EV was RWD and I would say that winter performance was comparable to my FWD sedans that I drove before, because the weight is distributed much more evenly, and that traction control is amazing.
My current EV is AWD and even on all season tires, it’s insane. Obviously no powertrain helps you stop if you don’t have snow tires, but for starting off in rough traction, it’s insane. Comparing my car to our Honda CRV, it’s wildly different. I can basically drive the car like there’s no snow on the ground (except I leave a massive gap in front in case I need to stop). The CRV slides all over the place
Sorry for rambling, I’m just a bit of an EV evangelist, and snow is somewhere that they really shine
That’s only half of what traction control is. The other half is applying the brake to the slipping wheel to divert power back through the differential to the stuck wheel. That braking control is electric, and while I don’t think it operates with PWM, it can be applied many times per second.
My experience has been that on steep, snowy roads heavy EVs struggle. It could have been that they all had the wrong tires but going up Berthoud pass I’ve seen a handful of Tesla Ys and Xs doing their best Tokyo drift impressions trying to just get up the hill - virtually zero traction and sideways struggling to even stay moving much less staying in their lane
Weight is good on snowy roads in some circumstances, but not for going up hills.
I will say my FWD EV isn’t as good in snow as my old AWD/4×4 Jeep, or even my old Ford Taurus. I do notice the extra weight in snow, and the centre of gravity is closer to the battery pack, not the “engine”, at least middle not front. I think a RWD EV might be a little better.
Still, just drive to the conditions. I’m not going to cross the Coquihalla or the Malahat in winter conditions either.
I live in one of the snowiest states and have never had AWD. Never gotten stuck in 25+ years.
That said, my next EV will be AWD because I want the power and there is very little mileage penalty.
FYI: Winter driving modes on most EVs limit the amount of torque from launch to adjust for reduced grip on surfaces like snow and ice.
I’ve driven an EV for five years and made a 50km daily one way commute over rural, highway and city streets for 15 years. I live in Canada and we get snow , freezing rain and more weather. In my experience good driving habits > AWD all day everyday.
Pay attention to the road conditions, don’t drive faster than the weather will allow, get winter tires, keep your brakes maintained, drive a safe speed even when others are impatient, leave room to stop, if the weather is bad enough don’t leave at all, if you must leave plan to leave early enough that you aren’t tempted to make bad driving decisions such as speeding. This isn’t rocket science, but over the last 15 years and 540,000 km I have seen several impatient people pass me in the winter weather just to end up seeing them again in the ditch within 10 minutes. That includes 1 4x4 truck, 1 AWD SUV and at least 2 sedans.
The Bros in the truck all had to climb out the passenger side since it landed on its drivers side, the lady in the SUV was stuck down in the gutter and told me not to worry, she’d call a tow, and in the case of one sedan I ended up driving this small family home, car seat and all. Will AWD help you get yourself out of a slick parking spot, or start up at a red light? Sure, maybe, it depends. But it isn’t really going to help with much else and doesn’t come close to just learning to drive to the conditions.
Are you saying 2wd is safer than awd?
If good driving skill is equal, I mean.
Edit: since bluegill blocked me, ill update here… the argument could then be extended to saying summer tires is safer because it reminds you how bad things are, too
You mentioned in another thread to use all seasons instead of winter tires, so I won’t take safety advice from you on anything to be honest.
What do you mean by “good driving skill?” Humans almost all get over confident if they don’t get constant feedback that things are slippery, so 2wd with the constant reminder that things are bad will give you that feedback and thus you drive slower, which in turn makes it seem like you are a better driver who doesn’t get overconfident.
If you can avoid the over confidence problem and drive as slow as conditions demand, AWD is better because when you must stop at an intersect you can accelerate out of the stop sign faster and thus clear the intersection before the next idiot going too fast slides around a blind corner and into it. However I have no confidence that you can avoid that over confidence and so 2wd is safer because most of the time you are not in an intersection.
Adding to this, AWD gives people a false sense of security and often leads to riskier driving behavior. It’s just like you said, there is absolutely no substitute for knowing how to handle difficult road conditions, anything that extends your confidence beyond your ability is dangerous.
By this logic, use summer tires in the winter.
I use all season tires year round. Unless you live in a very remote or hot part of the world: anytime it snows the city/county/state brings out the plows and salt and cleans the road. Yes winter tires are better on ice, but in reality you are almost never driving on ice anyway so it doesn’t make much a difference. Just slow down when it is icy and summer tires are fine. And you need to do that anyway because winter tires are better, but they are not perfect.
That was absolutely not my point. My point is that that logic would suggest that you have false sense of security by using all season tires.
AWD helps, but knowing your vehicle and how it performs in the snow, will get you further than fancy devices. Now having the skills AND the fancy devices will take you almost anywhere.
when I was a kid, living on the prairies, the first winter I had my driver’s licence I went out to this big huge and very empty parking lot and started off having fun doing doughnuts. but then I started getting a feel for how it responds when it’s on the edge of control. and was practicing skid turns, regaining control etc. A RCMP car eventually came by, and just sat there for a min or two. I was thinking Uh oh… but he flicked on his lights, and I came to a stop, he walked over and asked what I was doing. I guess I gave the correct answer “learning how to drive in the snow”. He told me he got a “stunting complaint”, but he could clearly see that I wasn’t doing it entirely for thrills, or I would have been just burning those doughnuts. He gave me a few tips, on how to recover from a skid better, and told me to knock it off at that location but told me about another lot I could try and practice a bit more.
That interaction has literally saved my life a number of times, by giving me the skills early on how to recover when the vehicle is at the edge of control. I worked a career driving, never ended up in the ditch (touch wood) and have driven through the hairiest storms you can imagine.
Learn your vehicle, learn how to push it to the edge, and how to come back. (but do so in a safe place)
I’ve owned several FWD EVs in what I’d consider the wintery parts of BC (snowfall of 8+ meters anually) and the amount of times I got stuck as a result of not having AWD can be counted on one hand. Good driving habits and high-end winter tires are much, much more important than having AWD or not.
That said, the times I did get stuck were mostly a bit annoying if not embarassing (due to holding up traffic). Only once (while climbing a steep hill) did it actually get a bit sketchy due to backsliding, but that happened to every vehicle that had to come to a stop on that hill.
I’ll take good tires over AWD any day in a Saskatchewan winter. It’s interesting how influenced people have become to essentially the opposite of safety measures. AWD doesn’t help you stop, and taller bigger vehicles aren’t safer, they’re much more likely to roll.
Wouldn’t you want to avoid those, even if it isn’t common?
I mean, doesn’t that depend on the cost?
If it was $100 increase to avoid that, sure.
But if it’s significantly more, then I’ll take the cheaper car.
Funny you say that, because 100 bucks is usually the difference between budget winter tires and premium winter tires. You’d be surprised how many people still pick the budget option.
I live in Minnesota. While AWD isn’t a necessity, it is really great to have. My AWD ID.4 is amazing in the snow and ice. I didn’t read great things about the RWD winter handling. The extra acceleration/speed is fun, but I bought AWD for winter driving
This article makes two points that I wish every driver was aware of.
No matter how fast you’d like to go (or how fast the manufacturer says you can go), there’s only so much power you can deploy safely (and legally) on public roads.
Yes. Spending thousands extra on an 800 hp monster is NOT worth it for the vast majority of car buyers.
All-wheel-drive is a significant reason buyers flock to dual-motor EVs. But AWD is overrated. It can help you start in the winter. But it doesn’t help you stop.
Inertia does not care if your car has two or four wheel drive. Stopping distance depends mostly on the mass of your vehicle, the condition of your brakes, and the road surface. The number of wheels connected to the engine doesn’t matter at all. It’s purely a physics problem, and physics doesn’t fuck around. Of course, you should still make the best choice for your needs… just be sure you understand what AWD can and cannot do.
I saw an article on how Paris is going to add a punitive tax on SUVs and other overszied cars. Seems like an (edit: legitimately) great idea.
I wonder if it only pertains to households under a certain income level, kind of like their ban on shorthaul flights.
Reading the article, its just higher parking fees. So yeah, just a poor people tax.
I live in south-west Ontario and drive a RWD sports car all year round.
There’s nowhere I need to be that I can’t get to in the winter with the right tires and attitude. I’ve also driven it across to New Brunswick 3 times now over Christmas and through some gnarly snowstorms.
As long as the snow’s not building up on the road and bottoming me out, I’m good.
AWD is awesome. I love my subie. But don’t delude yourself. In ski resort parking lots I’ve seen FWD shitboxes drive around stuck 4WD pickups because they just slammed the gas and their shitty tires couldn’t make it up a hill. Good driving habits > good tires > all wheel drive. All three is awesome, but you should worry about winter driving in that order
Totally agree. But I’d rather have good driving habits, good tires, and awd than just the first two.
I dont buy the argument from others that being safer means you will drive less safely.
If I saw a study that showed a clear increase in preventable accidents in awd vehicles in winter, I would reconsider my position that awd is generally better than fwd
Awd doesnt help you stop or turn. Thats when you go in the ditch and get stuck. AWD is not a safety feature unless you live in the mountains.
And yet IHS found it to be safer to have an awd. /shrug
Correlation or causation?
I’d ask the same for all the anecdotes ive seen in the thread saying awd is less safe
Sure, but you might as well show your IHS source first.
I did earlier in the thread
I’d think AWD is for traction, not ‘the track’.
