Rule of law is obviously sympathetic to Hamas.
Tomer-Yerushalmi appeared to be a model servant of the state. Only the second woman to rise to the position, in 2021, she was appointed chief military advocate – effectively the IDF’s top lawyer.
She was shaping up to be such a good little war criminal, but she just had go and develop a moral compass…
The country was also still in the grip of profound shock and, for many citizens, fury at the October 7 massacre, with extremely limited concern for the treatment of detained Palestinians.
Such a way with words. “extremely limited concern for the treatment of detained Palestinians” is a very pretty way to say “thirsting for the blood of innocent civilians”
October 7 massacre
vs
detained Palestinians
Completely ignoring the starved, bombed, and shot ones not in detention (they are dead)
but she just had go and develop a moral compass
It’s not so straightforward.
Traditionally Israel’s government and military have considered the existence of an independent judiciary a crucial barrier to international legal tribunals investigating Israel for alleged abuses against Palestinians.
Where there is a robust national legal system willing and able to investigate and prosecute crimes, international courts are less likely to have jurisdiction to intervene.
“Don’t they understand we had no choice? That the only way to address the wave of international legal proceedings is by proving we can investigate ourselves?” the investigative reporter Ronen Bergman quoted the advocate general telling colleagues six weeks ago, in a report for Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper.
In recent decades many Israelis have seen the role of the military advocate general “as protecting soldiers from prosecution abroad”, said Prof Yagil Levy, head of the Institute for the Study of Civil-Military Relations at Israel’s Open University.
“In other words, the law is not upheld as a value in itself, but as a defence against international tribunals.”
Her office exists (to self-police just enough?) to avert international prosecution.
The torture video shaking Israel to its core because it leaked not because of the event happening. The leak is perceived as treason by the majority of Israel and they are fine with the tortures…
disgusting… do they think they can match the usa for atrocities, we got that shit on lock. amateurs.
omfg i hate this world
The thumbnail alone looks horrifying
This is not a video you need to see.
Apartheid state and I am the least bit surprised. This kind of shit has been going on since the Zionist arrived in the early 20th Century.
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Paywall.
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Yeah of course Israel is shocked.
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I’m guessing “shaking Israel to its core” is hyperbole.
Then you have no idea how unpopular Bibi and his genocide is…
Like, he hasn’t stopped elections for years because he’s afraid he’ll win too much, the next election him and his cronies are out of power.
They’re supposed to be every year, last was 2022 right before the attack IDF was somehow unaware of despite having the best surveillance network in the world…
Like, it’s kind of a big coincidence that happened right before Bibi was going to get voted out, and it’s been an excuse to keep him in office another 4 years
how unpopular Bibi and his genocide is…
Netanyahu would likely get voted out because of his mishandling and killing of hostages and his corruption but the genocide itself still enjoys widespread popularity in israeli. If there was an election, a slightly different right wing zealot would likely win.
Hasn’t been true for months… (Actually probably well over a year by now…)
Sixty-nine percent of Israelis support ending the war in exchange for a deal that releases all remaining hostages in Gaza, compared to 21% who oppose such a trade, according to a poll aired by Channel 12 Friday.
That was like 8 months ago, but pretty sure it was much earlier
That seems to me to be about hostages, rather than the genocide.
One in five still think killing palestinians is more important than saving the lives of hostages, but that doesn’t mean all of the other four in five oppose having killed all those palestinians.
People are upset about netanyahu prolonging the war and killing hostages for the sake of his career, but that’s not the same thing as opposing genocide.
Give me a minute to read all the sources and polling numbers you just provided…
https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/poll-strong-majority-of-israelis-back-idf-push-into-gaza-city/
"As international commentators wring their hands over the war in Gaza, Israelis themselves are clear: the battle is not over, and it must be won.
A new poll released Wednesday night shows a striking 65% majority of Israelis support the capture of Gaza City and the central refugee camps—still largely under Hamas control—compared to 32% opposed. Just 3% said they had no opinion."
I don’t think someone can be this ignorant so I will just assume you’re a shill.
I’m just pointing out that poll doesn’t support your argument. Prioritizing hostages is just not the same as opposing genocide.
From 5 months ago: 82% want to expell all palestinians in gaza and 47% want to kill every man woman and child
From june: 64% believe they are no innocents in gaza, which justifies killing even children.
So…
but the genocide itself still enjoys widespread popularity in israeli
You admit you were wrong?
Glad to hear!
Voted out? Wasn’t he about to be removed from office to be sentenced for financial crimes just before the war started?
Yes he should have been in prison just like trump
If I understand correctly the real issue isn’t that he would d significant time but rather that Bibi could have no involvement in politics after release.
Right. So they’re already:
wildly unpopular
impossible to vote out
What does this incident do to change that? Nothing
I mean…
I feel like I’m going to have to explain everything about Israel’s government for you to even have a chance of understanding this…
Do you even know how the dissolution of a Knesset works?
If not, don’t you think you should learn how it works instead of making assumptions?
Thatisn’t the contradiction you think it is ifyou understand parliamentary systems.
Yes. This just shows they’ve taken the mask off.
Back in July, Israeli protestors stormed the IDF military bases in order to free the abusers. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2q07kd3ld6o
*The soldiers accused of carrying out the attack gave a press conference outside the Supreme Court on Sunday, wearing black balaclavas to avoid identification.
The group said they could not receive a fair trial because of the leaked video, and were victims of an unfair “drumhead court-martial”.*
The video of us doing horrendous shit is extremely hurtful to our defense!
“How are we supposed to defend ourselves if you have all that evidence against us? It isn’t fair!”
While I agree they are unlikely to get a fair trial
- They don’t deserve fairness
- If this wasn’t leaked, they would go un-judged, which is the opposite end of that sliding scale they are complaining about by being outed as torturers.
I do wonder how much of it was “following orders” and how much was pure bloodlust. Neither excuses this, but the former would be indicative of bigger evil up the chain of command.
following orders
Now what does that remind of…
Every military ever.
The concept that a soldier is able to disobey an illegal order is flawed. The first thing that happens to them is being thrown in jail awaiting court martial. It’s then on them to prove the order illegal be ause the presumption is that it was legal. It becomes one person against the whole military apparatus.
The penalty if found guilty of refusing to obey orders? At minimum (in the US) a dishonorable discharge. At most a room on death row.
I still think soldier should refuse illegal orders, but the system is setup so they don’t.
I for one am 100% done with giving soldiers any grace on these matters.
You should update your minimum. In the US military It’s actually an NJP to start. You can request court martial if desired and it goes from there.
Dishonorable discharge is very rare and you’re likely to end up with an OTH or BCD if the “infraction” is significant. I’d rather have some jail time than shoot civilians tbh.Not even an NJP if you’re a Nuke. I’ve told admirals to their face that I wasn’t going to break the book to follow their stupid orders. I realize we are the prima donnas of the military though, and I wasn’t just a Nuke.
What is a Nuke?
It’s someone who works on a nuclear powered ship. You have to take extra tests to get on a nuke and they only allow the smartest ASVAB scores to take the test.
Navy Nuclear Power Program Member
The US has no draft, they choose to join, so they can go fuck themselves.
Assassins paid with taxpayer money, that’s all they are.Israel does. Compulsory service.
They’re not that dissimilar, both indoctrinate exceptionalism and fascism into their kids from an early age, the difference being that usonians go overseas to liberate other people of their oil, whereas israelis have war zones (they create) geographically close, so a bit of incentive is required for them to join the meat grinder. Not much though.
Well we just have to make sure the consequences for obeying orders to commit war crimes are worse than what their superiors can dish out for disobeying those orders.
You always have a choice.
This is what happens with Fascist thugs. American citizens in the US are getting shot in the back by ICE and beaten. People are dissappearing or held in detention with no camera footage to leak. Same shit, different continent.
Both equally idf terrorists like to terrorize paleatinins rape and torture them following Israel leaders policies
how much was pure bloodlust.
90%, they’re bred like that since they were born.
Everyone deserves a fair trial. If Israel cannot provide one then perhaps The Hague or Palestine can assist them in getting a fair trial.
A very reasonable and sensible perspective, but what if that’s still not going to be a fair trial either? We all have pretty strong opinions about torture, so I think we may need to go the extra mile in this case. If no unbiased jury can be found anywhere on planet Earth, then we’ll have to send them to Mars for a fair trial instead. It doesn’t even have to be elaborate, we can use the rules of the good old fashioned “trial by ordeal”. If you can survive on Mars, that demonstrates you were innocent all along and you can come right back home. Otherwise this is going to get dragged out for years and years while they dig up even more evidence and who knows what else may get discovered. This is really the best option for everyone. All aboard to Mars.
A “fair trial” is not about having a jury or judge from Planet Neutral.
Is it about having a defence and a jury or judge who weigh the evidence of the prosecution against the counter-evidence of the defence properly, to come to a conclusion.
I appreciate your attempt to be serious, but I’m going to continue to recommend trial by ordeal and since you brought up the possibility of having it be conducted on Planet Neutral then I’ll support that too, I admit I don’t know where it is but I’m assuming it’s going to be a really, really, really long trip, especially at sublight speeds.
Just ask in their embassy where it is located.
There was a very high profile criminal rape trial in Australia this year which was abandoned permanently after one of the jurors was found to have snuck a magazine article into court. See Lerhmann vs Higgins.
That could have been a strategy arranged by the defence. But if you think the judiciary itself corruptly arranged it then think again…
There was a civil defamation trial later where it was found the accused did indeed commit rape “on the balance of probability” (vs the more strict criminal criterion of “beyond reasonable doubt”).
So in this Israeli case the worry is now that the leak has damaged the likelihood of punishment for the perpetrators.
Everyone deserves a fair trial ffs. That’s how you prevent innocent people being thrown in jail.
Israel is our greatest ally and only democracy in the Middle East. Not like that washing machine CPU country, they’re just evil.
I am so lost. What country are you referring to as “washing machine CPU”?
You are indeed lost. What year do you think it is?
What is the washing machine CPU country?
Maybe it’s Taiwan? They build a lot of CPUs there. Still lost on the washing part. I guess parts need to be cleaned before assembled?
Who the fuck knows what this person is saying lol.
Yeah, and with all those CPUs do you really think they still do this manually like their great grandparents had to??
This is triggering me so hard.
No you genuinely aren’t making sense.
What do you mean by “washing machine CPU country?”
Why washing machines specifically?
I guess I woke up in the Fringe alternate universe.
No, you’re just dumb.
Any possible relevant comment I want to make violates site policy. They are the 21st century Nazis.
That’s rather impressive for Lemmy. I’ve seen open calls for violent actions stick around and not get banned on this platform. Might have been a different instance than .world though.
I mean, lemmy.world has to follow German law and reminder: saying “Palestinian people suffer” not followed by “…because of Hamas” is legally problematic there. Still, it’s easy to misjudge one’s relative freedom of speech: I am (un)lucky to live in a country with a higher rating than the US and it doesn’t stop populists from whining when people’s rights groups challenge their false and/or racist posters.
Death, death, to the IDF!
The Nazis were German fascists who thought the Jewish population was inhibiting their destiny of creating a master race. Israel does not maintain any of these views so while they are Israeli fascists they are not Nazis.
Pedant gonna pedant.
Nah, it’s messed up to make direct comparisons between Nazis and Jewish people, Roma people or any other ethnicity that was targeted for elimination by Nazis.
It isn’t pedantry as much as it is anti-racism.
It’s not messed up to make valid comparisons
That’s not a valid comparison. It is vaguely racist though.
Sure thing, bud.
Zionism is not a race.
A person bullied can still be a bully. A person that was horrifically abused can still be an abuser.
The Israelis in power are now ethnic cleansing Palestinians. Being Jewish or not doesn’t even factor into the equation.
Ok buddy but nothing you write changes what “Nazi” means. Nazis are German fascists. Israeli fascists are not German fascists so they cannot be Nazis.
Slightly incorrect. Anyone identifying with Nazi ideology is a Nazi. There are genuine American Neonazis for example.
The fact you call them “Neo-Nazis” makes it clear there is a difference.
Do you think maybe that the person who originally made that comment knows this? Everyone else knew what they were saying, and I’m pretty sure you did too.
I think the dipshit who made this claim is not any more intelligent or informed than the dipshits that agree with it. The only real question at hand is how much of this comparison is just racism masking itself as something based around morality.
The
NazisZionists wereGermanIsraeli fascists who thought theJewishPalestinian population was inhibiting their destiny of creating a master race. Israeldoes not maintain any ofwas founded based on these views so while they are Israeli fascists they arenotalso neoNazis.Your strikethroughs don’t mean ypur claim makes any sense. Israelis don’t believe they are destined to form a master race.
They use terms like sub-human.
I’ve heard that term used by another group before…
No, they just believe that they are God’s chosen people. Totally different.
The Nazis saw theor destiny as one that would cultivate the creation of an Aryan race. The Jewish faith believes they were chosen by their God to let everyone know what God expects of them. It’s very different.
It’s not, though. Both are supremacist ideologies with the same long term goals of eliminating those not in their in group.
Interesting that it’s turning out so similarly, then.
Im really curious as to your education if you think they are going similarly.
It’s not Nazi unless it’s from the Rhine basin area, otherwise it’s just sparkling genocide.
This is what you’re arguing about. The intent in calling them Nazis isn’t to insinuate they’re members of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei and no one would assume that’s the intent.
“Nazi” is common parlance as a shorthand for genocidal fascists because the Nazis are by far the most well-known genocidal fascists.
The meaningless semantic argument you’re putting forth is either a useless distraction, or you’re simply purposefully arguing in bad faith to derail the conversation.
That quote has me fucking rolling! Totally stealing it.
It’s a pretty well established meme, so go ahead.
Second time today I’m part of the lucky 10,000!
No that claim is similarly ignorant. The Nazis are/were a specific party with a specific ideology that Israel is not perpetuating. It is factually incorrect to call them Nazis. This would be akin to labelling AOC a “communist”. AOC is not a communist nor is Israel a Nazi state.
This is of course ignoring the inherent question of racism that is always baked in to comparing the historic victims of Nazi racism to Nazis themselves.
You can hate Israel without making comparisons to the Nazis.
making comparisons
You explicitly acknowledge that they’re just making comparisons while also suggesting they’re calling Israel literal Nazis. Your trolling isn’t even internally consistent.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd1c-_56yYGTJNit_GjUB-th5C8M4SKapOibN8vsmicakWNCA/viewform
https://zionism.wtf/ was a better “Zionist or Nazi Quote” quiz IMO but it doesn’t seem to load properly anymore.
And that is still irrelevant.
Whether that argument succeeds, Israel’s reputation as a country with the rule of law is once again in the dock.
What reputation? Israel and Hamas are the same. There is no rule of law. They are hating brutalizing killing each other with impunity. I’m glad I don’t live anywhere near them.
Hamas was in response to the israel treatment of Palestinians
And financed by Netanyahu.
The video isn’t shocking Israel. That one of their top lawyers leaked it is. Israel is knowingly genocidal. Literally everyone serves in the military at some point in their lives, so they all know what they’re doing. They just don’t want the rest of us to see it openly.
“Showing video of our actions is blood libel”
Why does this type of bald faced deflection still work enough that they can keep doing it
Blood libel or ritual murder libel is an antisemitic canard which falsely accuses Jews of murdering Christians in order to use their blood in the performance of religious rituals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel
The fuck? Nobody was making any kind of claim like that. Why did he bring it up?
It’s the “fake news” of the right wing Zionist politicos.
Deflection to be used to say this is more antisemitism to his base
Jews who defend Israel’s Gaza Genocide are doing more to spread anti-Semitism than anything since WWII.
because it’s geopolitically convenient
It’s absolutely shameless, they don’t care how transparent their accusations are.
Thanks
