Everybody knows about the backstory, there was a civil war, KMT fled to Taiwan creating two Chinas sort of, maybe, neither recognises the other, whole thing. ROC (Taiwan) ended up transitioning from military rule to a multi-party democracy, while the PRC (mainland China) didn’t do that (they did reform economically, “socialism with Chinese characteristics” and all that, but still a one-party state, not a multi-party democracy). The status quo right now is that Taiwan is in the grey area of statehood where they function pretty much independently but aren’t properly recognised, and both sides of the strait are feeling pretty tense right now.
Taiwan’s stance on the issue is that they would like to remain politically and economically independent of mainland China, retaining their multi-party democracy, political connections to its allies, economic trade connections, etc. Also, a majority of the people in Taiwan do not support reunification with China.
China’s stance on the issue is that Taiwan should be reunified with the mainland at all costs, ideally peacefully, but war is not ruled out. They argue that Taiwan was unfairly separated from the mainland by imperial powers in their “century of humiliation”. Strategically, taking Taiwan would be beneficial to China as they would have better control of the sea.
Is it even possible for both sides to agree to a peaceful solution? Personally, I can only see two ways this could go about that has the consent of both parties. One, a reformist leader takes power in the mainland and gives up on Taiwan, and the two exist as separate independent nations. Or two, the mainland gets a super-reformist leader that transitions the mainland to a multi-party democracy, and maybe then reunification could be on the table, with Taiwan keeping an autonomous status given the large cultural difference (similar to Hong Kong or Macau’s current status). Both options are, unfortunately, very unlikely to occur in the near future.
A third option (?) would be a pseudo-unification, where Taiwan becomes a recognised country, but there can be free movement of people between the mainland and Taiwan, free trade, that sort of stuff (sort of like the EU? Maybe?). Not sure if the PRC would accept that.
What are your thoughts on a peaceful solution to the crisis that both sides could agree on?
edit: Damn there are crazies in both ends of the arguments. I really don’t think giving Taiwan nukes would help solve the problem.
I think the current best solution, looking at the more reasonable and realistic comments, seems to be to maintain the status quo, at least until both sides of the strait are able to come into some sort of agreement (which seems to be worlds away right now given their current very opposing stances on the issue)
You tell me. Why do so many feel the need to use the Chinese civil war split to push racism, xenophobia and chauvinism against the Chinese? Saying Taiwan should be independent isn’t what I’m taking issue with even if I disagree with that statement personally. It’s the racism that you(general you not you specifically) accompany it with.
I don’t know. Am I doing that when I say that Taiwan should ideally be an independent state because that’s ultimately what they want?
What they actually want, according to polls, is to maintain the status quo.
And you’d be foolish to think China’s rhetoric and threats doesn’t impact how people vote on that. In any case, “Reunification” is very much the least favourite choice from all of them.
And Taiwan is already a de facto independent state.
Ok, then the did you determine what the people of Taiwan actually want? White man mind reading?
I’ve said it all over this thread what I suspect the majority want to do. You’ve seen my answers on this repeatedly if you’re reading this thread.
So based on noting except chauvanism
How so? I gave my arguments.
Do you believe they want to join the PRC and be governed under the CCP?
Your argument was just “I believe it to be true”
Well, fortunately I have Westerners to tell me what the Taiwanese people want so I don’t have to worry about what they actually say.
Right, which is why throwing the situation into chaos to force a non-issue is completely absurd.
I can literally read their polling on this and in a binary choice between official independence and “reunification”, the former wins out.
I didn’t say anything should change. Just that they do not want to be incorporated into China.
Reducing it to a binary choice is the very definition of a false dichotomy.
That’s not what you said. What you actually said was “Taiwan should ideally be an independent state because that’s ultimately what they want?” That sounds a lot like calling for formal independence, not the status quo.
This chart proves their point, it’s overwhelmingly pro-independence. Did you read it before posting?
4% support is “overwhelming?” Lmao I don’t think so. Can I get some of what you two are smoking?
The graph is overwhelmingly pro-status quo. Literally all four of the top responses are some variation of that.
I do believe it’s what they want, but geopolitical pressures and reality ultimately get the response we see above. What we can see is that, eliminating the safe, friction-free option of status quo that about 7-8% want to unify and 25-26% want to officially seek independence.
Now this isn’t me saying they should actually do that now, but simply that is how I interpret the data.
No, eliminating the safe, friction-free option of status quo shows that 4% want to officially seek independence.
The majority wants to maintain the status quo without moving in either direction. A supermajority wants to maintain the status quo while moving in one direction or the other. But all of their voices are ignored by chauvinistic Westerners who want to ignore what they want and force the issue because that’s what they want, and the actual popular will can easily be written off and disregarded with these nonsense excuses like “they only say that because they’re being influenced by the existing material conditions” and “if we ignore 95% of the responses, people actually agree with me.”
No? I would question it being what they want as a whole I’m not sure it’s that clear an issue. But if that’s all you said then my comment obviously doesn’t apply to you. ???
I’m not saying it’s a big issue, but status-quo or status-quo with a view to independence (combined constitute a majority of polling on the matter) very much indicate wanting to maintain independence de facto - combined with a majority of pro-Taiwan identity in polling.
“Reunification” scores very badly.
好啊，统一中国？没问题。。。
中华民国万岁！民主万岁！
消灭中共，光复中华！
😏
Real “the south will rise again!” energy here. The KMT was kicked out of the mainland precisely because the people of China supported the CPC, which is why today over 90% of Chinese citizens support their government. The mainland would be devastated by the collapse of socialism, with over 1 billion people being thrown into poverty. The White Terror wasn’t exactly “democratic,” when the KMT took over Taiwan and slaughtered thousands that resisted the new dictatorship.
Your Chinese is ok, but I’m here to practice English.
And I have to ask, do you actually believe this? Because this is an evil position.
If the CPC collapses, we already know what happens. It’s been proven before. Economic shock, mass unemployment, pensions wiped out, public assets sold off, and ordinary people paying the price while foreign interests move in. Just like they did to the USSR.
You’re basically cheering for over a billion people to be pushed into chaos and poverty. That’s a horrifying thing to advocate.
And honestly, I’m asking partly because too many Chinese Americans do hold views like this from the safety of the US, sometimes in hopes of fitting in. Rooting for suffering back home to score points is cynical and cruel.
only thing they are hoping is the surveillance state collapses, and an actual people’s republic can be built in its place, and they can consider to return. but of course you can’t avoid painting the “traitor” in the worst light.
Nobody is racist. people are just fed up with the mindset of the kind of chinese citizen that is not only angrily parroting chinese political propaganda, but who even want other parts of the world to become like that, because they feel superior. and you know full well I’m not talking about communism here.
You’re very hateful for a third party. The collapse of the PRC that they seemingly “jokingly” called for would be devastating we’ve seen what happened to the USSR already. When did I call them a traitor that’s you putting words in my mouth. And to be able to look through this comment section and say there is no racism against Chinese people is genuinely astounding. Maybe it’s because you agree with the racists.
if the USSR didn’t fell, life would be very different where I live. by the looks of it, not better, that’s definite
If the USSR didn’t fall hundreds of thousands of women and children would have been saved from being pushed into prostitution and trafficking, millions would have avoid being plunged into morbid poverty, life expectancy wouldn’t have fallen by nearly 10 years due to the brutal conditions of capitalist shock therapy, there would be no war in Ukraine killing the sons of Russia and Ukraine by the thousand, the socialist block would still be together and would have enough strength that militant resistance against the omnicidal American empire would be more than just a pleasant thought for the future.
you are totally right! taiwan should just hand over itself so that nobody dies. same with ukraine, greenland, canada. why don’t they just do that!
Not at all related to anything I said?
I think they’re clearly baiting you rather than seriously calling for the PRC to collapse.
That’s not better
I think it’s about on par with people calling for the destruction of the USA.
Check his profile and posting history, he’s serious.
I’ve seen them around before, but I don’t think any Taiwanese person or any person of Taiwanese descent truly believes it’s possible to actually somehow destroy the PRC and replace it with the ROC. It’s just cathartism.
He was born in the PRC, not ROC. This is listed right on his profile. Believe it or not, people who emigrate from socialist countries often have extremely right-wing views.
Sorry. Chinese or Taiwanese, I don’t think any expat seriously believes that its possible to overthrow the PRC. It’s just ragebaiting and cathartism.
Why not? It’s common for people who emigrate from socialist countries to hold far-right views. You’re giving him far more credit than he’s asking for.