Comrade, I don’t want you to be upset with me. You’re a very interesting conversationalist for me.
Believe me, I’m sometimes as genuinely surprised by your information as you are by mine.
According to my information, the Great Leap Forward (1958–1960) was Mao Zedong’s massive economic campaign aimed at the accelerated industrialization and modernization of China. The campaign failed due to utopian management methods, the destruction of agriculture, and environmental problems, resulting in the Great Chinese Famine—one of the largest humanitarian disasters in history.
According to my information, the imposition of pseudoscience (Lysenkoism): In agriculture, experiments were conducted with deep plowing and ultra-dense seeding, which led to soil depletion and a sharp drop in crop yields.
According to your information, crop yields increased by 150%.
If this has offended me, then I apologize to you, of course, but I don’t understand what I’m apologizing for… We’re talking about Mao the manager now.
It’s certainly true that mistakes in work and management exaggerated the impacts of natural disaster. This did result in making a naturally occurring famine worse, similar to what happened in the 1930s soviet famine. However, between 1949 and 1978, agriculture was dramatically overhauled and succeeded in achieving food security, ending famine in a region where famine was historically common (again, similar to the 1930s soviet famine). Was the Great Leap Forward a clear success? No, not necessarily. Over-enthusiasm and mistakes in work magnified the impact of weather disaster. Millions did die. However, these mistakes were rectified, and agriculture was successfully advanced.
It’s certainly true that mistakes in work and management exaggerated the impacts of natural disaster.
If you’ve lived in the countryside, you must understand that a natural disaster cannot drag on for four years.
again, similar to the 1930s soviet famine
It was just the 1933–34 season—a single season. Yes, there were miscalculations at the local level as well; much depended on the collective farm chairman and how he handled the problems. One collective farm might get by just fine in '33, while right next door, people in another were dying of starvation. People began fleeing the starving farms for the ones that weren’t starving—and that, too, became a problem. The issue wasn’t systemic, but rather structural or localized. Under such harsh conditions, many leaders simply couldn’t cope with their responsibilities.
I had two grandmothers—my own flesh and blood—with whom I spoke back then. One grandmother was from the Kyiv region; they didn’t go hungry in '33 because they owned a cow. My other grandmother was from the Kursk region—the area where the Ukrainians recently advanced. People did go hungry there, but it wasn’t a mortal famine. Both of my grandfathers perished in the summer of 1941. After the war, my father arrived in the city barefoot because he had no shoes. He got a job at a factory as a rigger. Decades later, he was wearing a suit and tie, putting on a fresh shirt every day; he held a PhD… and served as the factory’s Chief Engineer.
When I spoke to you about raising a generation of young people—that is the kind of generation we need to raise: a generation like my father’s.
Ultimately, however, Perestroika began; science became something nobody needed anymore, and my father found himself out of work. As it turned out, he didn’t know how to trade.
My point is this: in exchange for the fact that my ancestors went hungry on the collective farms in the 1930s, their children—the children of destitute and starving peasants—lived the high life for the rest of their days… right up until Perestroika. It was a generous recompense for their suffering and starvation. None of it was in vain!
The outcome of the famines is a positive rather than a negative one—namely, that new reforms and shake-ups are once again needed in their wake.
But alright, have it your way: Mao… tried… to do something similar.
Similar to the soviet experience, Chinese workers are holding their heads high in new stages in socialist construction, with simiarly rapid levels of development. Anecdotes aside, this experience is common among both China and the USSR.
Similar to the soviet experience, Chinese workers are holding their heads high in new stages in socialist construction, with simiarly rapid levels of development.
Comrade, that line only worked in the USSR of the 1930s—when work was a source of pride, and nothing more! In the 1960s, however, people in the USSR derived genuine physical enjoyment from the fruits of their labor—a time when store shelves were overflowing with goods. A kilogram of black caviar cost $10 back then; today in Russia, it costs $500 per kilo.
Imagine: you work as a fitter at a factory, come home, and eat black caviar by the spoonful. Of course, nobody actually did that—but a working man could easily afford to buy himself some black caviar to go with his sandwiches for breakfast.
Had it not been for the war, this reality would have arrived as early as the 1950s. The task of rebuilding the country took an immense amount of time.
Comrade, if not for the war—and if Stalin had lived longer—China would be nervously smoking on the sidelines right now… )))
You could be correct, but we would never know. History did not take that course, what we have is what we have. I do not believe Stalin’s economy to have been bad, and wished it continued and the USSR was here today. Sadly, it is not, and the world is paying the price.
Comrade, I don’t want you to be upset with me. You’re a very interesting conversationalist for me.
Believe me, I’m sometimes as genuinely surprised by your information as you are by mine.
According to my information, the Great Leap Forward (1958–1960) was Mao Zedong’s massive economic campaign aimed at the accelerated industrialization and modernization of China. The campaign failed due to utopian management methods, the destruction of agriculture, and environmental problems, resulting in the Great Chinese Famine—one of the largest humanitarian disasters in history.
https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hans/三年困难时期
You say that the foundation was laid…
According to my information, the imposition of pseudoscience (Lysenkoism): In agriculture, experiments were conducted with deep plowing and ultra-dense seeding, which led to soil depletion and a sharp drop in crop yields.
According to your information, crop yields increased by 150%.
If this has offended me, then I apologize to you, of course, but I don’t understand what I’m apologizing for… We’re talking about Mao the manager now.
What’s the catch, Comrade?
It’s certainly true that mistakes in work and management exaggerated the impacts of natural disaster. This did result in making a naturally occurring famine worse, similar to what happened in the 1930s soviet famine. However, between 1949 and 1978, agriculture was dramatically overhauled and succeeded in achieving food security, ending famine in a region where famine was historically common (again, similar to the 1930s soviet famine). Was the Great Leap Forward a clear success? No, not necessarily. Over-enthusiasm and mistakes in work magnified the impact of weather disaster. Millions did die. However, these mistakes were rectified, and agriculture was successfully advanced.
If you’ve lived in the countryside, you must understand that a natural disaster cannot drag on for four years.
It was just the 1933–34 season—a single season. Yes, there were miscalculations at the local level as well; much depended on the collective farm chairman and how he handled the problems. One collective farm might get by just fine in '33, while right next door, people in another were dying of starvation. People began fleeing the starving farms for the ones that weren’t starving—and that, too, became a problem. The issue wasn’t systemic, but rather structural or localized. Under such harsh conditions, many leaders simply couldn’t cope with their responsibilities.
I had two grandmothers—my own flesh and blood—with whom I spoke back then. One grandmother was from the Kyiv region; they didn’t go hungry in '33 because they owned a cow. My other grandmother was from the Kursk region—the area where the Ukrainians recently advanced. People did go hungry there, but it wasn’t a mortal famine. Both of my grandfathers perished in the summer of 1941. After the war, my father arrived in the city barefoot because he had no shoes. He got a job at a factory as a rigger. Decades later, he was wearing a suit and tie, putting on a fresh shirt every day; he held a PhD… and served as the factory’s Chief Engineer.
When I spoke to you about raising a generation of young people—that is the kind of generation we need to raise: a generation like my father’s.
Ultimately, however, Perestroika began; science became something nobody needed anymore, and my father found himself out of work. As it turned out, he didn’t know how to trade.
My point is this: in exchange for the fact that my ancestors went hungry on the collective farms in the 1930s, their children—the children of destitute and starving peasants—lived the high life for the rest of their days… right up until Perestroika. It was a generous recompense for their suffering and starvation. None of it was in vain!
The outcome of the famines is a positive rather than a negative one—namely, that new reforms and shake-ups are once again needed in their wake.
But alright, have it your way: Mao… tried… to do something similar.
Similar to the soviet experience, Chinese workers are holding their heads high in new stages in socialist construction, with simiarly rapid levels of development. Anecdotes aside, this experience is common among both China and the USSR.
Comrade, that line only worked in the USSR of the 1930s—when work was a source of pride, and nothing more! In the 1960s, however, people in the USSR derived genuine physical enjoyment from the fruits of their labor—a time when store shelves were overflowing with goods. A kilogram of black caviar cost $10 back then; today in Russia, it costs $500 per kilo.
Imagine: you work as a fitter at a factory, come home, and eat black caviar by the spoonful. Of course, nobody actually did that—but a working man could easily afford to buy himself some black caviar to go with his sandwiches for breakfast.
Had it not been for the war, this reality would have arrived as early as the 1950s. The task of rebuilding the country took an immense amount of time.
Comrade, if not for the war—and if Stalin had lived longer—China would be nervously smoking on the sidelines right now… )))
You could be correct, but we would never know. History did not take that course, what we have is what we have. I do not believe Stalin’s economy to have been bad, and wished it continued and the USSR was here today. Sadly, it is not, and the world is paying the price.
If only people in the USSR back then had known what they stood to lose…
Agreed.