Ask them what?

Individual people are not their government.

what are you going to do NOW about it?

This mess isn’t on some of us. Some of us tried very hard to prevent this outcome and now suddenly we’re expected to clean up other people’s fucking mess.

Nah, fuck that.

I find it deeply disturbing that when I opened the comment section of a post discussing 400 (now over 700) dead people, mostly innocent children, men, and women, in less than 48 hours, the first reaction was to blame “Arabs,” “Muslims,” “Tankies,” “Leftists,” and “Pro-Palestinians,” using these minority communities as tokens.

Tankies are not “minority groups”…

This is a glaring display f hypocrisy, these groups are portrayed in a positive light only when it benefits politically, only to be thrown under the bus when they are no longer useful…

There is no hypocrisy. Arabs and Muslims are portrayed in a positive light to counter the American far right’s frothing hatred of them, that was the core reason.

Any human capable of experiencing empathy would have first reacted with disgust and indignation at the unfolding genocide, rather than resorting to scapegoating and divisive rhetoric, but it may also not be organic comments, what do I know…

“divisive rhetoric” you sound like a fucking centrist.

As a Windows & Linux user, I can, in the same way that I get that car people love working on cars.

I still really don’t ever want to work on cars but I understand.

I largely use technology of any kind for the applications of its use, not because of an intrinsic desire to knee deep in technical work.

It’s definitely stuff like this that interests me. I think eventually - when the dust finally settles - people are going to have to start talking again.

I think I’m done doing this though. I’ve done the work of being a patient debater for too long. I just want to give into hedonistic mud slinging at this point because I kind hate to say it but I think the world might be politically doomed anyway. I might as well get my jollies.

I just burned all my patience to nothing obsessing for so long. Decades of my life. And even if I somehow recover my political energy, I’ll still be living with the knowledge that my country let Trump win a second time. That 70% either voted for Trump or failed to vote against him and let him win. Its really hard to have hope with that knowledge. I’ll probably just kind rage for a bit, and then when I save enough money I want to flee to some other country if possible.

You don’t need to worry about insulting me. I probably deserve some insults.

I hope you manage to avoid the bitter void that I’ve fallen into.

Ehhhhhhhh. I had fun here and there primarily because I was playing with friends. I probably would have had more fun if I played something else though, sunk cost fallacy influenced me.

Battlefield 2042. 5k hours.

The issue here is that if more people choose not to join a union for the pay raise in the short term, unions become weaker in the longer term. The capitalist in this case is paying a premium now to divide up labor for the chance down the line to save more money on labor overall in the long term.

There was one dude who was an antisemitic rightwinger and seemed to start adopting softer stances like “You can’t really blame Jews for being bankers historically, its just kind of where they ended up being pushed into by other religious groups. It doesn’t make sense to hate them for that.” or something to that effect. And he even started mixing some left & right leaning econ together.

That is the most notable example I can think of at the top of my head. But there were little bits and pieces that got chipped away I think for each interaction for the more open minded debaters I argued with.

Some were extremely stubborn though. I remember an anarcho-capitalist that was just dripping with disgust for socialists and basically never budged. He was a Youtuber too, I don’t remember his name though. Motherfucker hated me lol.

Vaush is confidently incorrect

On some things sure, hes confident about virtually everything he says. But I suspect what you think hes incorrect on and what I think hes incorrect on are different things. I even suspect you disagree with stances that aren’t even stances he actually holds.

I mean sure its a skill in that it is deliberate public relations craft.

No. Or at least I know Lonerbox isn’t.

And yet, I’ve given him clicks.

I thought you said you only watched clips of him? I assumed you meant by other creators.

All I can see is that I see a pretty clear method to the madness. There’s always an out, it’s always “you don’t understand the context.” It’s the same tactic Trump uses, and the same tactic used in countless ad campaigns.

Trump supporters don’t actually care about context though. They say that shit for propaganda purposes. Vaush supporters bring up context because he literally gets clipped out of context for oppositional propaganda purposes.

Also, there isn’t always an “out”. Some of the things Vaush has said/done are bad even with context. Like when he told his followers to go harass Contrapoints on Twitter once because he was upset with her and wanted to “Force her to see reason” or whatever. When he was unnecessarily nasty to TJ Kirk during some debate. Or when he flashed on screen AI generated and drawn porn of a canonically 16 year old character and bestiality.

There are a few other things I’m probably forgetting.

No, there’s lot’s of little niches that one can carve out, regardless of being left or right. There’s plenty of opportunists with supposedly left-leaning brands. The right-wing grifts and personality cults are more profitable, but it’s also a fairly saturated market with a lot of competition. There’s plenty of room for people like Destiny, Jimmy Dore, and Vaush to carve out their respective “left-leaning” niches.

Jimmy Dore is 100% vapid grift. Destiny is a terrible human being but he is also almost certainly not a grifter. He says what he means and means what he says.

Vaush is someone who is significantly egotistical, narcissistic, impulsive, and short sighted. But he is not a controversy-monger, on that front he is just a dumbass.

I have no idea what the specific goal was but it seems like it was just a place for interesting debate. I only know I got invited because of my advocacy for UBI on Reddit back when I was a (otherwise pro-capitalism) liberal and then from spending time there I morphed into a Mutualist/Market-Socialist.

Vaush doesn’t debate other creators anymore. His controversies have accumulated to a point where he is essentially walled off from that for various reasons. Too many creator’s alienated and controversies fueling rhetorical weaknesses.

I’m not talking about debate really though. What I mean about his ideological honesty is that he is willing to anger his own audience, Hasan is very careful not to do that.

There is 100% such a thing as bad publicity. Your post here is a literal example of this, you actively avoid him and there are many people who feel the same way as you.

Hes not forced to say edgy shit, he just doesn’t put much effort into not saying edgy shit and he naturally wants to. He doesn’t police his own words, for instance, his frequent use of the word “retarded” and his joking about hating women. He also constantly blurts out shit and then his audience points out he misspoke and he gets annoyed and says “You fucks know what I meant”. He has no anxiety or shame about his wording of things. There is no worry on his end about saying something shameful, he’s literally said that he thinks shame is a worthless emotion.

He doesn’t “mask” essentially. He is not careful. Maybe to some degree that helps his internet career because of reputation of authenticity or something but it also frequently pisses off his own audience. The controversies have lost him subs, they’ve severely damaged his ability to engage with other creators because he has either alienated or outright insulted them, which means he doesn’t debate anyone anymore, left or right.

Its not on purpose. Hes not playing 12D chess to boost his youtube career. He wouldn’t be a leftwing creator in that case, he’d be a rightwing grifter instead. A lot more money in that.

Hasan avoids arguing with leftists because hes a cowardly clout monger and can’t debate for shit because he isn’t really that smart and is captured to some degree by his audience.

I don’t hate Hasan, I do agree with a lot of his takes but hes fundamentally a less ideologically honest person than Vaush. Vaush doesn’t give much of a shit about pissing off his audience, he does it constantly.

Hasan has drama/beef with H3H3 & Lonerbox.

I don’t know where you are getting the idea that he purposefully generates controversies. He lost subs during most of his controversies, not gained. And it has down stream negative impacts on his channel other than just sub count.

He is just very careless.