For me it’s PeppermintOS.
I started my Linux adventure a few years ago, and haven’t owned a Windows PC since.
I currently use Arch on my main rig, and I wanted to install Linux on two old laptops that I found laying around in my house
I then remembered the first distro I ever used, which is PeppermintOS, and I was amazed at the latest updates they released.
They even have a mini ISO now to do a net-install with no bloat, with a Debian or Devuan base.
Sadly, I believe the founder passed away a few years ago, which is why I was really happy to see the continuation of this amazing project.
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I generally don’t understand why people go for the smaller ones at all. I guess it’s good that someone does to prevent the whole scene being dominated by a single distro, but with some exceptions (e.g. you hate systemd for some reason and really want systemd-less arch, or you have a super niche preferences). For 99% of distros it makes very little difference which one you use, except that you’ll have fewer resources at your disposal (fewer packages, fewer stack overflow threads, fewer everything).
ubuntu pushing snap is what pushed me away. i had used it since warty and was a regular contributor in the official forums. i went back to pure debian, and have since added mint and manjaro (yes i know about its history) desktops, and a few dietpi on x64 (no sbc here), two of which run my piholes.
I don’t know about it’s history, can you enlighten me?
main source is ManjarNo
Doing changes right is a bit hard. With immutable Distros, some changes are easier like adding or removing packages, bur core OS adaptions are harder.
But for example how would you convert regular Ubuntu to
- unsnap
- KDE Desktop, no GNOME at all
- rolling mesa and more
- …
This all gets messy, so people choose small distros
I’m on arch, which I consider one of the larger distros, where most such configuration is very simple. Not sure what rolling mesa is. I probably wouldn’t recommend Ubuntu to anyone who is against using Snap, but there are many distros to choose from if you want KDE as well? It’s more a question of why people would go for Hannah Montana Linux (figuratively speaking, some very niche distro).
But to respond to your core point, sure. If you do have a lot of customization needs for whatever reason, then by all means. (I still don’t get it)
I meant that its not easy to customize deep system changes and keep them working well, on your own.
There are Forks of Ubuntu like TuxedoOS, PopOS (?) and more that do rather big changes that could break things. So its best to have a community support them.
But I agree on your point. Currently I am on Fedora Kinoite but still dont switch to ublue, as I can do the changes on my own, on the official base.
If I had an NVIDIA card though, I think ublue is the only Distro thats reliable enough (if an update would break, you simply dont get it)
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The nature of FOSS suggests (make that extra italic) that the most popular distros should be those that actually work the best. Totally agree that Ubuntu is an outlier, and even that is because of choices Canonical made – and corporate decisions really aren’t typically a part of FOSS.
That said, I truly enjoy smaller distros for hobbyism. I don’t necessarily see a use case where they should be chosen over a larger one, except for the really annoying fact that distros with corporate backing will always also tend to get quicker adoption.
Void Linux for the arch and gentoo crowd. It’s a system that can be assembled more cohesively.
Nix and Guix - the ideas they bring to the table are revolutionary. I prefer Guix due to its use of Scheme (guile). But Nix is more mature and has more packages.
I’ve used Debian for years but tried Void on a really low spec netbook and it’s pretty nice. The install is pretty painless and not having systemd is an interesting change for me.
Whenever somebody recommends NixOS, I just want to spam the comments with Guix. I prefer configs I can understand, and I think lisp makes that easier. Other than syntax, the only thing I see is people complaining about the free-oftware-only. But the recently hyped distrobox solves that (together with the nonguix repo). Yet nobody recommends guix in all these “immutable” distro threads.
In my opinion Guix is the best mix of:
-
Arch (rolling release),
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NixOS (“immutable”, atomic updates , rollback, reproducible, declarative configs)
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Gentoo (source code based, write your own package definitions for any source code you find),
with some lispy syntax.
NixOS, and hopefully soon SnowflakeOS which makes it more approachable for more casual users.
Another user mentioned Guix, which I’d like to try soon to compare to NixOS.
It’s hard to compete with how much there is in nixpkgs though… as much as I… a professional Haskell programmer… hate to acknowledge the realities of network effects.
NixOS has the worst documentation I’ve come across. It’s difficult to describe just how useless it is despite its wealth. It’s neither a manual, nor a reference, nor a guide, but all three jumbled in one and that goes for the package manage with its DSL, the operating system built on top of the package manager, and the tooling.
The best description I can think of the documentation of that project is “everything is everywhere”. Bless their documentation team volunteers that are trying to figure out the absolute mess it is. They have my utmost respect.
So, I have only ever known Windows, but am becoming more and more Linux curious. I see all these different distros you guys talk about and I have to ask, do all the distros run any of the available software or would I have to try to try to find one that will run what I’m interested in running? If so which distro will run the available music production software? I’m sick of microshaft. Help a brother out?
Welcome to the Linux community!
There’s a certain set of us Linux users who cling to the adage “for beginners, distro doesn’t matter much.” A lot of the differences between distros are things under the hood that you won’t notice or care about. The main two things that will change your experience are the DE and the package manager.
DE = Desktop Environment. The GUI, what it looks and feels like. This is a matter of personal taste, you can find DEs that look and work more like Windows, more like MacOS, or neither. Try out a few, pick which one you want. I like Cinnamon because they tend to put things where someone who’s used to Windows, but doesn’t really like Windows, would look for things. Again your choice of DE is personal taste.
Package manager = app store. Think about smart phones, a major deciding factor is which app store(s) it has access to. My Samsung Galaxy has both the Google Play and Samsung Galaxy stores. If you buy a Pixel, you don’t get the Samsung store. If you buy an iPhone, you’re stuck with Apple’s App Store. Go back to what? 2014 or so and buy a Fire Phone, you’re stuck with Amazon’s app store. Same thing with Linux distros.
In practice, most mainstream distros will support practically all Linux software in some way. I run Linux Mint, Mint comes with APT and Flatpak, and between the two I can find all the software I want. (Asterisk: video games, for which I have Steam). Other distros will have technically different but functionally similar package managers; on Arch you’d use Pacman, on Fedora you’d use RPM. The Steam Deck uses only Flatpak for user apps.
So go with a fairly mainstream distro that has Flatpak support either out of the box or easily installed and you’ll be okay.
Thank you. That’s some real, usable information. You and the others who have replied have really been great. In the past I’ve encountered so much elitism and dismissiveness when I have tried to wind myself up for the switch. It’s nice to find some inclusive helpful folks for a change.
Glad to be of help. I hope you have a good time with Linux.
A recommendation to help you get over that "gee which of several thousand distros to pick: pick out no more than four distros that each have different DEs, and run them each in virtualbox for a little while on your Windows machine. Just look around and see which you prefer.
Will do
Search https://repology.org/ for the software you’re trying to run.
If it’s windows only, search for an alternative on https://alternativeto.net
If there’s no alternative, check if it runs in wine https://appdb.winehq.org/
But honestly, I’d stick to the first two. I’ve been on linux for more than a decade now and do not miss a single application that runs on windows.
Most distros are almost exactly the same, NixOS and Guix are a bit different but if you get Ubuntu or Fedora or PopOS or something they all work fine.
That’s encouraging
So my intuition and guesses from what I’ve heard is that Fedora might be the best for you.
Here are some links:
https://labs.fedoraproject.org/jam/ https://linuxmusicians.com/ https://archive.ph/hYxrO
Not sure if oudated:
https://fedoramagazine.org/configure-fedora-to-practise-and-compose-music/
If you want to use NixOS, the one I recommend elsewhere, I’m not sure what your experience will be whether good or bad. Probably more fiddling, but more flexible/stable in the long run.
Here is a matrix room if you are interested in asking more knowledgable people about that path:
Writing music and making files for my 3d printer is most of what I do with a computer anymore. What I’m not trying to do is make a separate hobby of OS trialing. I’m worried I won’t be able to find drivers for my audio interface, hell I’m running it on an old Win7 driver in Win10 now. Payday is Friday, and I will be ordering a second SSD to quarantine this experiment on. For now I read and pester random folks on the Internet for opinions. I appreciate your suggestions, for sure.
I’m not as familiar with music/audio production, but I’ve done a lot of 3D printing from a Linux system.
For slicing, you’re spoiled for choice. The only one I’m aware of that doesn’t at least try to support Linux is Formlabs; Slic3r, Cura, PrusaSlicer, even Simplify3D offer Linux versions.
For modeling, Blender runs well on Linux if you’re of that persuasion. For engineering CAD, pretty much the only first-class citizen is FreeCAD, which is powerful if a bit of a pain in the ass. You can also use OnShape because it’s browser-based, but they’re trying to be Solidworks especially in price. I have seen Fusion360 in Ubuntu’s Snap store, but haven’t tried to use it.
I run blender and cura, so it sounds like I’m covered there and that’s encouraging.
What you need to do is install Oracle Virtual box on your pc.
Then download a Linux distribution: I’d recommend Linux Mint
Install it virtually on Virtualbox.
Then connect your audio equipment to the pc and in Virtualbox use the menu to send that device from Windows to Linux.
Look for the menu called devices or something like that. It will just the various inputs it sees eg. Usb, SCSI, aux etc and you can select that and then select the attached device. That will send the device signal to Linux.
Then see if you can see the device in Linux.
If not research whether you need a driver or a particular application. The best place to ask about drivers is from the device manufacturer. If they don’t exist anymore then Google it. Eg Linux driver for [device name] or Ubuntu driver for [device name]
If you can get it to work then you’re set and you can install Linux as your main OS. or just use it in the VM. If there are no drivers and it doesn’t work, stay on Windows.
Just be aware it’s the device manufacturer that should make the driver, whether for Windows or Linux. Sometimes the Linux community will make their own driver if the OEM doesn’t. I haven’t seen that happen on Windows. On Windows if the OEM doesn’t make one, you either use an old one or get a new audio device 🤷
That’s what I mean with distrobox. You decide to run distribution A. Later you realize a package(program) is not available in A but in distribution B. So you run distrobox and have B on top of A. And access to all the packages.
Interesting. Sounds like i have yet another thing to read up on.
What does snowflakeOS do differently than nix ?
Is it perhaps like endavourOS and Arch linux ?
It is the endavourOS of NixOS.
However, making NixOS more user friendly is a lot more work than simply offering a default config. Most of the work/challenge lies in the GUI NixOS configuration editor.
snowflakeOS
Maybe it’s the soulless cynic in me speaking; but the obvious snow-theme around NixOS notwithstanding, ‘snowflake’ MIGHT NOT be the best name for a distro aimed at ‘casual users’. It’s as though they’re saying, ‘LOL! You snowflakes can’t be assed to figure out how to install nixos, but still want to reap its benefits? We got you precious snowflakes LOLOLOL’
How is Guix for disk user use? As soon as I install nix (the tool, not the OS), it immediately eats up 2Gb of hd space… before installing anything. I wipe the install and then forget for a few months, rinse repeat.
Guix looks a lot cleaner to me, but I haven’t tried it yet.
Maybe use btrfs, which has reduplication and compression capabilities. I never tried it in Guix but it’s like magic.
In fairness, when you install the nix package manager you’re going to get a full toolchain with all necessary dependencies in addition to your system ones. On NixOS these are your system ones as well so you don’t necessarily have duplicates. The same will be true of Guix afaik.
I love the idea of guix, the syntax and docs seem much nicer, but the most important feature of NixOS for me is reproducability. If i’m installing all my software in distrobox, it is no longer reproducoble. Guix also seems to lack an alternative to Flakes.
the most important feature of NixOS for me is reproducibility
Reproducibility is a big topic for Guix developers and users as well, just have a look at how many times they talk about that: https://hpc.guix.info/blog/2022/07/is-reproducibility-practical/
Also correct me if I’m wrong but I think Guix goes further on reproducibility than Nix, because everything they package is from source, whereas my understanding is that a lot of Nix packages are built from binaries.
Guix does have great reproducability. The person I was replying to was recommending people use distrobox for software that isn’t packaged, I was saying that isn’t reproducible.
The very large majority of nixpkgs is built from source, but there are a few apps that can’t be built for whatever reason. This is still reproducible because it fetches a tagged version of the software and checks it against a hash.
Yes, that’s true. You lose reproducibility by using distrobox. But so far I did not need distrobox on my Guix laptop, the nonguix repo was enough. It was just a suggestion for somebody caring more about availability of packages than reproducibility to use Guix as the stable base and distrobox on top.
I love Guix and want to see it get more recognition but I’ve never been able to get Distrobox working on Guix System, have you? I opened a discussion on the Distrobox GitHub but it was quickly closed.
This looks like a problem with the image. But I can try as soon as I am back home.
That’s what I thought but I’ve tried five or so images without success including the more mainstream ones like Fedora.
So far I had not much time, but I tried and failed with different errors when trying to pull an image regarding policy.json. do you use docker or podman?
Intuitively, without doing a detailed comparison, I agree that Guix and lisp would make things easier.
Network effects so far has been my reason for not trying Guix sooner along with the free software only… though free software only has also simulatenously pushed me towards it :)
Distrobox, is something, I don’t think I’d be too interested in. However I’m probably just annoyed at being forced to use unreproducible docker images all the time and biased against containers because of it.
I’ll have to give it a try!
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Plain ol Debian
I’ve been using it on servers for over 20 years. It’s a great distro.
It’s a community project. Every member of the Debian project has equal rights and vote on major decisions. It’s not owned by a large company so it’s mostly avoided any controversy due to bad decisions (for comparison, see the controversy around CentOS Stream).
They mostly don’t change things if they work fine as-is. The network configuration in
/etc/network/interfacesis essentially the same format as it was 20 years ago. (for comparison, see Ubuntu deciding to change how it does things every few years). Probably the biggest recent change was switching to systemd in 2015, but even today they have a compatibility layer to convert packages with sysvinit-style services to systemd, and you can still switch back to sysvinit and completely get rid of systemd.You can upgrade to the next version in-place - just edit the apt repository config to point to the next version,
apt update,apt full-upgrade, and reboot into new kernel version. Most upgrades are seamless (but it’s still best to read the release notes).Most packages include a
README.Debianfile in /usr/share/docs somewhere that usually includes very brief instructions on how to get started with the program.It supports practically every system architecture. They still make an i686 build that works with processors as old as the Pentium 4. They also had an i386 build that worked on systems as old as the original Pentium, and only dropped it this year with Debian 12. Supporting an architecture doesn’t just mean the base OS - it also includes most of the packages too.
What I love about Debian is there are always instructions regardless of whatever random package I want to use or Linux thing I’m trying to do.
@dan what is the name of the distro.please tell me I am switching to Linux from windows and I don’t want to use Ubuntu.
I’m talking about Debian :)
been thinking about moving on from Pop_OS and doing the usual looking around – was going to be a toss up between NixOS, Void, Alpine, and Debian Sid – but recently caught Veronica Explains talking about Debian and realizing enough with all the noise – simple, stable, boring, ubiquitous sounds REALLY appealing …
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Using it over years and discovered the expert installer a few months ago. Really good stuff, especially since they decide to build an extra repo for non-free-firmware, because a lot of people ditch Debian when their shitty WiFi doesn’t get recognized immediately after install because it needs a non-free-firmware.
EndeavorOS btw.
Mint is surprisingly loved and disliked from what I have seen. Having used it since 2007 I am in the category that likes it for what it is. But I am somewhat surprised by the open hostility it gets for simply existing. Main arguments being that it is a dinosaur, uses X11, should not exist because anything not KDE or GNOME is just diluting desktop Linux and is part of the problem. It has no fancy corporate sponsor, it has a small team, and it for sure has warts, but you can claw Linux Mint from my cold dead hard drive because I have distro hopped like an addict and it just checks the boxes for me. It shows up and works, even on newer hardware with a little tweaking here and there, but I can use Nvidia, find network printers without effort, scan, install and update flatpak, backup the system, game, and get actual work done that is not fiddle farting around with esoteric configs all the time. I can post on actual forums with actual users on it and not some discord where someone will just post memes over my questions. I have a strong feeling it will exist for a long while given it’s history. And it is mind numbingly borning as an OS. I just sit down and compute, what a concept.
If there was only a way to get automatic tiling on cinnamon it’d be my favorite desktop by far. Everything you need, nothing you don’t, sensible by default. It’s the right option for most people I think
Excellent - I’m about to install it for my aged mother, because windows keeps moving her cheese.
I want something that doesn’t change the workflows once she’s learned how to do a task, and that local techs can help her with, and that I can VNC to when I have to.
You can configure the system for backup and auto updates which is handy to keep it secure without any interaction. Only reason I ever had it fail was entirely me screwing it up, usually by distro hopping and formatting wrong.
How can someone speak such truth. Agree it is not perfect. But it just works and really well. Only big controversy I can think of is the website being hacked a couple of years ago, but they were open and transparent in my opinion about the hole thing. Also disto hoped a lot but I am always brought back to “green Ubuntu”. Can Mint team get ontop of Wayland please
Speaking as a relative linux noob, Mint is probably the most recommended distro I’ve seen now that Ubuntu jumped the shark. Not sure how anyone could think it needs more recognition.
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Linux Mint Debian Edition.
Like Peppermint this is a fantastic distro for anyone wanting to use Debian without the pain of self installing. Plus you always have the latest cinnamon.
It’s also good for anyone wanting to get away from Ubuntu all together.
I’d also like to get away from the stigma that mint is only a newbie distro. It’s not. It’s full fat Linux so pros can use it too, and should. It’s very reliable, fast and use friendly.
Above all, it’s true FOSS and LMDE is 100% community 💪
All of them, thanks a lot for all the Devs hard work, I’ve tried and loved so many distros that I can’t choose any of them but lately I have been using cachyos which is a clean and fast arch based distro.
Hannah Montana Linux
Arch. Some of its users take this distro for granted a lot of times but it only goes downhill from here once you start looking at other distros.
Tumbleweed. Solid, Automated QA testing.
Chimera Linux. Security-related compilation flags go brrr. No systemd.
Maybe we’ll see SerpentOS sometime before this decade ends but who knows.
On a side note. Aeon 1.0 if/when released, can’t wait to see how it all turns out. Especially if they manage to integrate BTRFS snapshots with systemd-boot entries.
Wow. Great to see Chimera Linux on this list, though I do not think it is even out of Alpha yet.
Chimera Linux and Vanilla Linux are two of the distributions that I am most interested in at the moment.
I am also a huge fan of Arch but I typically install EndeavourOS these days. Out of the 80,000 or so Arch packages, EndeavourOS adds only about two dozen more but many of them are great. Installing yay by default is a great decision as well.
Wow. Great to see Chimera Linux on this list, though I do not think it is even out of Alpha yet.
This had me confused for a bit, but I see now that Chimera Linux and ChimeraOS are two different things.
Yeah using Arch (btw) cured me of my distro hopping. Although NixOS is looking tempting…
Honestly I’ve really enjoyed Zorin. It’s made life simple when it comes to migrating friends and family to Linux. Specifically the way they handle fonts and scaling in office programs when opening Microsoft files. It’s been easy to get my wife to get off of windows after they started bombarding her with adds on her fuckin desktop screen.
Can you send a screenshot please? I’m curious how the fonts look.
Bazzite, a gaming-oriented immutable distro with up to date Fedora packages and kernel, a lot of the kernel patches you’d want for gaming, automatic daily updates in the background, the option of installing the Nix package manager and Distrobox out of the box. They even have a Steam Deck version that works just like stock UI/UX wise but with all the added goodies.
Plus, on rpm-ostree/ublue-os as a whole, it just amazes me to no end you can basically look at deploying a distro as if it’s a git repo these days. Wanna try Gnome? Rebase to the corresponding image and reboot, your data is still there. Don’t like it? Quickly rollback or just pick the previous entry on GRUB. Incredible stuff, I’m sticking with those if I can help it for the foreseeable future.
+1 here. I wanted to write the same. Silverblue/ uBlue in particular has a huge potential.
It already is extremely user friendly, but if someone could develop an even more “noob”-friendly version with a great welcome-starter that shows you how to install stuff, a good looking KDE rice, and sells it as extra-distro with it’s own website and iso, then it could easily replace Mint as the #1 best beginner distro!
Heck, Bazzite is most of the way there. With how quickly it’s been improving, wouldn’t surprise me if it had all that pretty soon.
Puppy. Tiny, quick, hard to break, runs on everything.
Puppy got me through a rough year after a nasty virus corrupted my windows boot sector and I couldn’t afford a replacement at the time.
Technically, I had the money a month later but I was enjoying Puppy & just stuck with it.
I’m considering replacing my router with a software router and have been comparing a few options.
I was having a lot of difficulty getting 10Gbps through opnsense. Even after tuning a bunch of tunables, I was only getting 3Gbps or so, with no fancy features like IPS/IDS enabled. It was just a basic out-of-the-box config with my current home network as the “WAN” and a small lab network as a LAN. Something (NAT maybe?) seems to be single-threaded as it was hitting 100% of one core on a six-core i5-9500 (which should be more than powerful enough for this).
While researching I learnt that OpenWrt has an x86-64 build you can run on a computer. I thought it was only for regular routers.
Flashed OpenWrt to a USB stick and tried it instead of opnsense. Out of the box I got full 10Gbps speed, using less CPU power than 3Gbps used in opnsense (~15% per core across all cores). The base system is fast and light, only using 15MB of disk space and less than 100MB RAM. That makes sense given it’s designed to run on routers, but in an era where a lot of software is very bloated, it’s nice to see lightweight software that does its job with barely any overhead.
I don’t think Arch needs more recognition; it seems to be doing just fine. It’s been my daily driver on desktop and laptop for years, and on my cloud servers for a little longer than that.
Chimera Linux is doing some novel stuff, rather than the same old reflavoring of other distros; it’s one I’m keeping my eye on.
I’m running Artix on a laptop; that’s a good one for people wanting to escape the Poettering hive-mind. I’m running EndeavourOS on my desktop, and love it. TBH I should have done it three other way round; Artix is too fussy for a dynamic environment like a laptop.
Chimera is the bees-knees. I’ve got my son’s computer configured with it and have had zero complaints, it just plays games and makes working roms/emulation so easy.
You might be talking about ChimeraOS, while the other person is talking about Chimera Linux, a different project.
