• retrospectology@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Simplistic philosophy for simplistic minds.

    It’s not a trolley problem, and even if it were the consequences of greenlighting democratic support for genocide are not fully represented appropriately in this image.

    • Aqarius@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Funny thing is, that’s what’s called a controlled derailment. It’s the engineering answer to the situatuon, if the situation were real and not a contrived philosophical dilemma.

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      It’s close enough to the tracks that it would hurt the hostages, and the wreckage would probably have enough momentum to hit them anyway.

      This is a good analogy actually. Blowing up the train would feel good, but that isn’t going to stop the momentum, and it’s unfortunately virtually impossible to outright stop it’s momentum at this point. All that blowing up the train would accomplish is sending fiery wreckage towards the middle track.

      This is why accelerationism is stupid.

    • Liz@midwest.social
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      3 months ago

      You’ll have to be more specific about what blowing up the train maps to in real life before I can tell you whether or not doing so would also kill a shit ton of people.

      But to keep it in metaphor, there are also innocent people riding the train and blowing it up would kill them, too.

  • SnerkRabbledauber@lemmy.today
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    3 months ago

    If that third track were an option the trolley problem would never have existed. If there really is a third track in the real-life situation, then the trolley problem is not a good analogy of that problem.

    Sadly, in this election there is no third track and we are forced into choosing the lesser of two evils.

    If you want a third track, push for ranked choice voting!

    • HANN@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      There literally is a third option that will be printed on most of not all ballots. Rank choice voting is huge but people should be willing to vote earnestly. Nobody wants to be the one to make the change and wants the world to change first but that’s not how it works.

  • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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    3 months ago

    I’m with you on what the meme is trying to say, but the bottom track needs to be shown looping around to the Republican track and running over everyone.

    Because that’s where the third track leads.

    • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Yep, not voting is unironically pretty much the same as voting for the party you least want in charge.

      Because you’re making it that much more likely.

      Don’t throw away a right that your ancestors fought for, as it may result in future generations no longer having that right.

    • FatCat@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Electoral systems is a pretty nerdy topic (despite how important it is for who gets power), so it is not an issue the typical voter cares for. Therefore there is not enough political capital for such large reforms to be taken on by politicians.

      • knexcar@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Based on the about of Lemmy comments advocating for it, it seems like the typical voter is pretty passionate about ranked choice voting.

        • FatCat@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Based on a super niche subset of chronically online youth - this applies to everyone. 🤪

  • BadlyTimedLuck@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Guys, I don’t know what’s going on in the world and their wars. I just want a president who isn’t abhorently evil. Do we have to revolutionize to find that 3rd option orrr?

    • Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      I assume your “abhorently evil” comment is based off support of the genocide in Palestine (which is a completely reasonable thing to describe as abhorently evil, I’m just being clear about my premise).

      In which case, sorry, bad news, you can’t have that. Your options this time round are genocide supporter or genocide supporter. Somewhere down the line, years from now, the US electoral system may have been sufficiently reformed to make third parties viable. But this year that’s not going to happen.

      So that decision is completely out of your hands. But here’s what you do get to decide; you can have an outright fascist, leading a party of outright fascists who have openly publicised their plans to turn your country into a fascist theocracy. Or you can have the guys who strengthened workers rights and went after major companies for union busting, hit Microsoft for $20 billion in back taxes, had the FBI raid a major landlord for illegal price hikes, brought antitrust lawsuits against Amazon and several other large tech firms, and secured billions in aid for Ukraine in their fight for their freedom. And that is literally just a tiny sampling of the good things that Biden’s government has done.

      I don’t even see how that’s a choice. One of these two options is clearly and manifestly better than the other, no matter how disgusting it feels. A vote for Biden is not an endorsement of his position on Gaza. It is a tactical choice, nothing more. And if nothing else, its a tactical choice that will prevent the fascists from filling even more seats on the supreme court.

      It sucks, but those are the only options. Sometimes life just be like that.

      • Crikeste@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        I think the choice is really: Does America deserve the lesser evil?

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      We can have it for the low price of demanding it. Tell the Democrats you won’t vote for Biden if he doesn’t stop supporting the Israeli genocide.

      • John_McMurray@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        You realize why the Ashley Biden rape showers with grandpa suddenly became nearly mainstream news and will suddenly go away if Biden does what he’s told?

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          If that’s how it is then we’ve already lost. People who would make up stories like that would rather take the mask off and destroy democracy then let us get in their way.

      • ashok36@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Less palestinians will die under Biden. People who says “how could it be any worse?” have a severe lack of imagination and/or historical knowledge.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Less palestinians will die under Biden.

          This claim is absolutely meaningless without evidence and some indication about how the situation resolves.

          There’s a very good chance the moment Biden knows he’s won the election he’ll call you Bibi and go “thanks for your patience. Go nuts.”

  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Fun fact. You don’t get the bottom track without demanding it. You end up on the middle track if you negotiate on human rights.

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Yup. You also get the middle track when you show up to the 2020 primaries and think to yourself “I’m gonna vote for a geriatric procorporate establishment white man. This is the best decision for me and everyone else will have to accept it because the alternative is Trump.”

      • FatCat@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Amusing to see commenters who think Biden primary voters are reading forums on Lemmy and are still venting their grudges 4 years later… 🤣

          • FatCat@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Definitely not on one of the most marginal, leftleaning comment boards that is lemmy

              • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                Lemmy was literally developed by communists and it feels like every other person here is a socialist.

                I think I’ve only ever seen a few people on here call themselves liberals, and that was in the confused American version of the term, I’ve seen liberal used as an insult infinitely more.

                Supporting Biden or Ukraine or Israel also does not immediately equal Liberalism, and I have no clue why yall have been treating it like it does.

                • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  Yes, liberals will not call themselves liberals. Much like NIMBYS would never call themselves NIMBYS. Especially ones trying to convince leftists to vote for a procorporate genocide supporting trash of a candidate.

  • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Lol neoliberals are stroking themselves about how clever this is and just out of view there was another choice back in 2020.

    But they like to ignore the fact they voted for a geriatric, procorporate genocide supporting candidates in the 2020 primaries.

    • WinterBear@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      What kind of argument is this? “People talking about the current election are ignoring an option that hasn’t existed for 4 years” of course they’re not?! It’s not an option any more! The meme perfectly represents the idiocy of anyone trying to take any kind of moral high ground by not voting. America has made its bed, it sucks but no amount of idealism can change the practical options available to you.

      • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        I never claimed any kind of moral high ground. You’re inferring that all on your own.

        And I will be voting but I won’t be voting for a strike blocking genocide supporting candidate.

        • WinterBear@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          It’s funny you pull the whole “ackshually I never said that” but I never accused you of taking the moral high ground. I just said the meme perfectly captures the idiocy of people taking the moral high ground. You lumped yourself in that category.

    • FatCat@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      That ship has sailed now bud. Now its trump or biden and that is what the meme is referring to.

      • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        “It doesn’t matter that we made terrible decisions that got us here you’re now morally obligated to vote for our strike blocking genocide supporting candidate!”

        No. I won’t be voting for Biden, Trump or RFK.

        • FatCat@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          “We”? I’m not even from USA … And I doubt many Lemmy commenters voted for biden in primaries.

          Put your big boy pants on and stop whining when people point out that you are wrong morally on a given issue.

          Sometimes life isn’t fair 🥲😲

  • Phegan@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    The problem is that we have two choices, and we will never not have two choices unless we do something about it. I can both say that Joe Biden sucks and we should do better and also vote for him because the other option is worse. This discourse that makes it seem like any criticism of Biden is pro trump is how we will end up in a slightly less terrible place. Cool. Really looking forward to that.

    Also like what the fuck…I guess we have to kill Palestinians no matter what.

    There is a third fucking option and it’s not doing a genocide.

    • grue@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      There is a third fucking option and it’s not doing a genocide.

      That’s only an option if you have a viable strategy for accomplishing it.

      • EatATaco@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        Which, of course, they don’t. It’s a vanity vote. They want to pretend they have actually done something without actually having to do anything of consequence.

    • neeeeDanke@feddit.de
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      3 months ago

      If you were sitting at the controls that would be an option, but allas we are all just part of those doing a tug of (less or more) war for the switch

    • djsoren19@yiffit.net
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      3 months ago

      If your point is that the American system is fucked, we all know. We’ve known for decades. We’re trying to fix it, but progress is basically nonexistent, because every politician who is currently elected benefits from our fucked system. Trying to get to a parliamentary system, like most developed real democracies, is almost entirely out of reach. Just getting ranked choice voting is like pulling teeth, and we’ll have to create a brand new party to have politicians free from corporate interests.

      I will have to fight all my life to enact positive change in this country, all because a bunch of rich white assholes who came to power long before I was born have stolen my future from me. Don’t belittle us, mourn for us and never, ever repeat our mistakes.

      • blazera@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        We’re trying to fix it

        every politician who is currently elected benefits from our fucked system.

        Wild how electing politicians that benefit from the system hasnt fixed the system yet.

    • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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      3 months ago

      Well, in context of philosophy being taught in class you would then change the prompt to a harder question. You would also debate whether the person who makes the decision is in fact responsible and how that dynamic changes when the prompt changes.

      So maybe you have to choose between 2 men only half as happy or handsome or one fully formed magical man with magic hands.

        • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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          3 months ago

          What if the train magically transforms regular men into new men? What if they were opposed to the transformation before it happened?

          Conversely, what about if it magically creates men causing potential overpopulation? What if the men it created morally oppose the tram, but more than half the local population feel like it is necessary to run no matter what?

          You can pretty much run this thought experiment forever, so far we’ve been going for 57 years.