• SpiceDealer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 month ago

    (Mass dislikes time!)

    Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.

    That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.

    You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another.

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      That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.

      But it’s not a fact though? You can’t imagine up some fictional scenario and then just claim it’s a fact; words have meanings

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      If not reeducation, which method would you prefer China use to combat the foreign radical Wahhabism and terrorism spread by the CIA in Xinjiang for the purpose of regional destabilization and regime change?

      We all know how the US chose to implement its own war on terror. Muslim majority countries in the Middle East support China’s method.

    • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.

      Previously:

      The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.

      The only countries pushing this narrative are the “always the same mapimperial core countries, which just so happen to be largely the same ones supporting Israel’s genocide.

      Almost no predominantly-Muslim country buys the Uyghur genocide narrative, because they know it’s bullshit, because they talked to the Uyghurs themselves.
      https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330 #HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.

      • TankieTanuki [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 month ago

        The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.

        Much like how after China foiled their color revolution attempt in 1989, the CIA had to pivot to the “Tinyman Square Massacre” narrative.

        • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          1 month ago

          Very much like that, and they’re still getting mileage out of it with no effort, because Lemmitors get an endorphin rush every time they do the CIA’s work for free, the brave defenders of freedom & democracy that they are 🤦‍♂️

      • tyler@programming.dev
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        1 month ago

        Sources:

        • china news propaganda site
        • medium article from rando
        • project syndicate link which is an op-ed site (not news)
        • a wiki page from an incredibly biased group
        • a youtube link…
        • a site calling itself a news site, yet no actual credentials, but seems to be associated with China (Ajit Singh has written Chinese propaganda books)
        • a substack link

        This has to be the least compelling list of evidence one could provide, and yet you get upvotes because it looks like you’ve provided proof of something. All you’ve done is provide a lot of incredibly, seriously biased opinions with no actual facts at all.

        • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          1 month ago

          Wow, I wonder why there aren’t any Western corporate media sources with a Media Bias/Fact Check seal of approval…

          Previously:

          The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.

          The new post-Trump/“post-truth” media literacy curricula won’t teach it to you either, because it was paid for and crafted by the US military-industrial complex: New Media Literacy Standards Aim to Combat ‘Truth Decay’.

          This week, the RAND Corporation released a new set of media literacy standards designed to support schools in this task.

          The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”

          None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.


          * I’ve criticized MBFC & Ad Fontes before:

          • dangrousperson@feddit.org
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            It’s OK to distrust more than one Government, but how anyone can believe the Chineses Government in this matter is beyond me.

            Did you not see the insanely violent crack down on Hong Kong Democracy Movement with you own eyes? Do you not remember Tianamen Square? Great Fire-Wall?

            Theres liyteraly over 10GB or evidence of the persecution of Uyghurs by the Chinese Government:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_Police_Files

            I can understand not wanting to believe/trust the US and EU Govs, but trusting the Chinese Government is (IMO) insane.

            • Spectrism@feddit.org
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              The Xinjiang Police Files are said to be leaked documents from the Xinjiang internment camps, forwarded to anthropologist Adrian Zenz from an anonymous source.

              Adrian Nikolaus Zenz (born 1974) is a German anthropologist known for his studies of the Xinjiang internment camps and persecution of Uyghurs in China. He is a director and senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, an anti-communist think tank established by the US government and based in Washington, DC.

              Yeah… not suspicious at all.

            • m532@lemmygrad.ml
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              1 month ago

              “How anyone can believe the foreigners is beyond me” Let me guess you don’t consider foreigners human

              “All foreigners are ‘insane’ btw” calm down hitler

            • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              1 month ago

              Did you not see the insanely violent crack down on Hong Kong Democracy Movement with you own eyes?

              Previously:

              The UK’s 99 year lease to subjugate the people of Hong Kong ended, a lease which had been forced upon Imperial China at gunpoint during the century of humiliation. Hong Kong reintegration after the lease expired was a foregone conclusion. The last minute, US-backed attempt at color revolution failed. It was the so-called “revolutionaries” who brought the brutality, by the way.


              Do you not remember Tianamen Square?

              Previously:

              I’ve already asked another commenter this but it’s valid here too: Would you class the western oppression of dissent to be on the same level as that famous student protest in China?

              Only someone misinformed about the 1989 protest and US/CIA/NED-orchestrated, murderously violent riot would ask this, which to be fair is 99% of Westerners.


              Great Fire-Wall?

              The firewall isn’t there to keep Chinese people from The Truth. It’s there to keep imperial core meddling out, and to help China develop its own domestic internet services. In contrast, the rest of the world is dependent on / addicted to US internet services from Google/Alphabet, Amazon, Facebook/Meta, Microsoft, etc., which many countries are beginning to regret.


              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_Police_Files

              I already covered Xinjang elsewhere in this post, and if you had read it you would know that Adrian Zenz is a crackpot.

            • Kras Mazov@lemmygrad.ml
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              1 month ago

              It’s OK to distrust more than one Government, but how anyone can believe the the west in this matter is beyond me.

              The west has repeatedly coup’d, invaded, destroyed, killed, bombed, sanctioned everyone that dares look at them wrong. But sure, daddy west is completely right when it comes to China.

              Hong Kong Democracy Movement

              Democracy is when you have west funded protests trying to do a color revolution. Sure.

              Do you not remember Tianamen Square?

              Oh, one of the biggest propaganda lies the west ever made about China? Have you actually watched the tank man video? How about the evidence of the contrary to the so called “massacre on Tiananmen square”.

              Great Fire-Wall?

              Oh no, China doesn’t allow the west to propagandize to it’s citizens, while simultaneously propping it’s own national platforms, the horror!!!11!!1!

              Also, let’s just ignore how the Arab League literally investigated the so called “Xinjiang genocide”, and found nothing.

              But sure, Adrian Zenz is right, lmao.

            • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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              It’s OK to distrust more than one Government

              Then you should try it, you hypocritical dipshit. You believe everything that comes out of the western propaganda machine without question, and then assume anyone who doesn’t believe them are “believing the Chinese government”

              If it were 2002 you would be accusing anyone who didn’t believe Iraq of having WMDs of “believing Saddam!”

              Do you not remember Tianamen Square

              So do you do this in the opposite direction? When people doubt a claim made by China, do you start randomly bringing up unrelated events from forty years ago. What exactly was the chain of reasoning that made you thought this was relevant? Oh right, there wasn’t one: you’ve just been trained like a literal dog to compulsively blurt out “Tinyman Square!” every time you hear the word “China”.

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            Nobody said anything about MBFC. Good luck, like I said in another comment I’m not going to argue with anyone from .ml. I was pointing out the faults in your sources because they’re not proper sources no matter what region of the world you’re from.

            • Kras Mazov@lemmygrad.ml
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              “Waaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaah! I’m a little baby incapable of citing sources, I’m not gonna talk to you .ml demons.”

        • pineapple@lemmy.ml
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          Would you prefer something from America’s own fox news or New York Times?

          • tyler@programming.dev
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            No, neither. You’re making up a position and pretending like I believe that to make my argument look weak. I’m not the one posting shit sources.

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              You’re not posting any sources at all. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

        • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
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          I trust OIC and Muslim countries more than I trust any Western source. It is borderline farcical for Western governments and media to pretend to care about the welfare of Muslims in China while directly or indirectly enabling the genocide and ethnic cleansing in Palestine and invasions and war crimes in many other countries as well as the discriminatory policies in their own countries.

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            I’m absolutely not going to provide sources or even argue with anyone from .ml on an .ml community because it’s pointless. You all do not care about proper sourcing and think it’s even a detractor because it’s “western”. I’m pointing out the problems with the sources for all the other people that are observing that comment and being swayed, because it’s a bunch of baloney.

            • DupaCycki@lemmy.world
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              Disclaimer: not .ml.

              Critisizing someone’s sources and then refusing to provide any other ones “because it’s pointless” seems a little hypocritical to me.

              I’m pointing out the problems with the sources for all the other people that are observing that comment and being swayed, because it’s a bunch of baloney.

              So we should trust your word over someone’s who has at least put in the effort to provide sources?

              Look, you don’t need to prove anything, but if you’re gonna argue or act like you’re defending people from misinformation, then I’d expect to see more than just “don’t listen to that guy”. It’s not exactly easy finding objective information about various issues in China and filtering out all the American propaganda. Personally, I’d very much appreciate any links that don’t lead to obvious manipulation.

              • Zabjam@feddit.org
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                How is it hypocritical? Either the sources are biased or not. The poster not providing proof for a counterargument is irrelevant. Or do you mean they should provide proof for the original sources being biased?

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                If someone claims to solve string theory and then provides shit sources there is never an obligation to provide sources that solve string theory. Pointing out sources are shit is part of science. I don’t need to provide a counter argument because that’s not the purpose of the conversation. I don’t need to provide proof of the alternative because the only thing I’m trying to accomplish is to stop this liar from spreading misinformation.

                A lie can travel around the world before the truth takes a few steps. That’s exactly what that user is trying to do. Post as many lies as possible so that refuting them takes hours if not days if not months or years.

                • DupaCycki@lemmy.world
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                  How can you know if the sources really are bad if it’s not obvious aftet reading? Do you just trust a random person’s words? In this case, you’re essentially arbitrarily picking one version over another.

                  The problem with ‘stopping lies’ is it requires effort, which not everyone may wish to dedicate. I’m by no means denouncing the other person for trying to stop misinformation (assuming that’s the case, since I still have no idea). However, it’s all in vain if they don’t bother to do anything to prove their point.

                  Anyone can post misinformation as sources, just as anyone can post that the sources are bad. Fundamentally there isn’t a whole lot of difference between the two. If you really feel the need to defend people from being misinformed, some better source or other form of proof, or at the very least a deeper explanation would go a long way.

                • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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                  1 month ago

                  So like

                  If someone claims there’s totally a genocide

                  Then provides shit sources…

                  🤔

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              You’re conflating “proper sourcing” with being western, that’s already an error, and second of all it’s the west that has been most prominently pushing the genocide theory. Of course it’s going to be contested by China. The validity of sources used by posts on YouTube and Medium aren’t in question because of where they are hosted, they are often hosted on these kinds of platforms because opposing western narratives gets you blacklisted.

              • tyler@programming.dev
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                If that were true then non western sources would have plenty of news articles, yet all ml users post are things directly from Russia or China or “alternative” “sources” like medium (which isn’t a source). There are plenty of regimes that do not align with anything America has to say, yet no news articles from them.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  Not really true. We post sources from all over, especially groups like Al Mayadeen that post in English. If we post something in spanish from Granma, for example, people can’t read that.

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          You’re arguing with a guy that doesn’t want to change their mind. He literally sent me a video whose sources contradicted him and guess what happened when I pointed that to him? Never bothered to reply and he still uses that video as proof that he’s right.

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      this post isn’t cheering on china, it’s shitting on the west’s hypocrisy.

      also you might want to look up who funded the wahabis who groomed the terrorists that the crackdown is a response to.

  • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    We’re very butthurt about our failed color revolution, and we’re very concerned that we can’t even manage to make lemonade out of our lemon.

    Westerners, every time:

  • rando895 [she/her]@lemmygrad.ml
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    Yeah like frig China. Why aren’t you killing them? Whats wrong with you? Clearly the most morally correct thing to do is exterminate them, what are you trying to hide?

    • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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      The US liberates muslims (from the mortal coil) while China enslaves muslims (by making them part of the productive forces).

  • narwhal@mander.xyz
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    The people that try to equate fake genocide with real genocide are like the school staff punishing bully and victim alike. They are enabling the abuses. Also it must be deeply insulting to the real victims in gaza.

  • Broadfern@lemmy.world
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    “Our genocides are the good genocides” thinking persisting this long is baffling. Even more disturbing is these people are in power.

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      Is it though? People hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe. No one wants to believe that their privileges are predicated on suffering elsewhere.

      Westerners in particularly have always been very “heads in the sand” when it comes to modern history but it’s not surprising. Every nation struggles with the darker aspects of their history.

    • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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      As long as you critically stan a state, it’s okay to support genocide. /s

  • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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    1 month ago

    Genocide is bad. If your ideology prevents you from agreeing with that statement, you are a monster.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      Nobody here is denying that genocide is bad, what’s in question is what the US Empire says is happening vs what is actually happening. The US Empire has lied before, such as the babies taken from incubators story or Iraq’s WMD, but it was only long after the dust had begun to settle in Iraq that the liberals started to agree with the leftists that the evidence was actually insufficient after all.

    • jankforlife@lemmy.mlOP
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      Genocide IS bad, but the “muslim genocide” in China is nothing but a CIA op, as usual

  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    Listen, I’m sure there’s a very good reason why we have radically different policies towards Afghani Muslims and Uyghur Muslims, despite the fact they share a border and a litany of cultural practices.

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    So concerned that we bribed foreign terrorists to blow shit up in Xinjiang, forcing China to spend on education and job programs there.

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      These people, who don’t know shit about fuck, are absolutely sure that they already know everything that needs to be known, and that we don’t know shit about fuck.

      And in twenty years they’ll say they knew it all along.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        Please elaborate: where’s the racism?

        This has been the US playbook since before we were born, and funding, arming, and influencing Salafi jihadists in particular has been going on since at least the 1980s. Previously:

        6 December 1993: Anti-Soviet warrior puts his army on the road to peace

        FAIR: Forgotten Coverage of Afghan ‘Freedom Fighters’ But the U.S. government and the American press have not always opposed Afghan extremists. During the 1980s, the Mujahiddin guerrilla groups battling Soviet occupation had key features in common with the Taliban. In many ways, the Mujahiddin groups acted as an incubator for the later rise of the Taliban in the 1990s.

        Despite CIA denials of any direct Agency support for Bin Laden’s activities, a considerable body of circumstantial evidence suggests the contrary. During the 1980s, Bin Laden’s activities in Afghanistan closely paralleled those of the CIA. Bin Laden held accounts in the Bank for Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), the bank the CIA used to finance its own covert actions. Bin Laden worked especially closely with Hekmatyar—the CIA’s favored Mujahiddin commander. In 1989, the U.S. shipped high-powered sniper rifles to a Mujahiddin faction that included bin Laden, according to a former bin Laden aide.

  • Cruxifux@feddit.nl
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    lol seriously. Most obvious propaganda scam of all time. Libs fell hook line and sinker though.

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    Hot take:

    The US has committed horrifying war crimes and crimes against humanity against Muslims and continues to do so.

    And so does China

    Its always fascinating to see the war between Nazis and Tankies fight over which imperial power is based, rather than demonstrating a working frontal lobe and damning both for their crimes.

    • jankforlife@lemmy.mlOP
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      And so does China

      The only “evidence” of this comes from the empire and is demonstrably false

        • Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.comBanned
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          The 400 citations in question:

          [1] Victims of Communism Memorial Association

          [2] Burger Eagle Freedom Institute

          [3] China Freedom NGO (Washington DC)

          [4-399] Western State Television Station (retrieved in 2020)

          [400] Literally the CIA

          The article editors in question:

          u/USA_STEM_Edgelord_USA_1990

          u/TotallyNotAFed69

          u/WhiteCisManInHis30s

          • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world
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            Good job outing yourself as someone who can only read up to 3 lines before they have to vomit bullshit onto the internet.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              Someone once put together a book titled, “One Hundred Authors Against Einstein.” Einstein dismissed the book with the quip, “Why one hundred? If I were really wrong, they’d only need one.”

              • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world
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                Sounds like a colossal reach at best, and pathetic cope at worst.

                You understand the colossal differences between multiple independent journalists researching and reporting on the same topic, and a large organized group of pseudointellectuals trying to disprove a single person based on vibes alone, right?

                You seem to be very desperately, and pathetically holding onto a form of fallacy of composition:

                https://practicalpie.com/fallacy-of-composition/

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  No, I’m simply calling out a lazy gish gallop. It’s the same in both cases.

                  How many sources are listed on the Wikipedia page for Christianity? If I accept your logic as valid, it seems I’ll have to convert.

          • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world
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            Wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources of public information, most especially do to the international collaboration efforts on it.

            You can’t just dismiss a source on the basis that you don’t like it. You need to provide actual evidence that the source is untrustworthy

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              Wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources of public information

              Yeah if you’re looking up wood joints and math theorems. Not if you’re trying to learn anything about politics or history that ties into the interests of the systems and institutions that filter the media allowed as valid citations.

              You need to provide actual evidence that the source is untrustworthy

              Do they ban the New York Times because they lied the country into every war it’s been in since McKinley?

        • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world
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          Not only has China been an imperialist regional super power for the majority of its lo g history, but simply ask Taiwan, the Uyghurs, Tibet, Hong Kong, Vietnam or any of the various countries China is practicing neocolonialism in in Africa or Island nations

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            1 month ago

            This is fanfiction. China isn’t practicing neocolonialism in Africa, it’s engaging in south-south trade that is actually helping African countries escape the trappings of western imperialism. Taiwan was invaded by the KMT when they lost the war, and took over the island. The Xinjiang and Tibet are both doing well and support the PRC, and Hong Kong is gradually doing better now that they aren’t under British colonial rule. Vietnam is a strong trade partner with China.

  • Shamber@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Translation, we are very concerned because someone else is doing the killing, they took ur, joooobsss