I don’t like it, but it’s necessary because Europe needs to have trustworthy defense capabilities.
and we clearly can’t trust USA anymore.An own nuclear deterrent unfortunately is a necessary evil in the face of hostile nuclear powers. The alternative is to become vassals or, even worse, colonies to those hostile nuclear powers.
This is not a given outcome. Ukraine is not a nuclear power and are not becoming a vassal of Russia.
UK has vowed to retaliate proportionally if Russia attack Ukraine with nuclear weapons.
So Ukraine is somewhat protected by allies. Otherwise who knows what that maniac Putin could do?Also your example proves the point, be cause Russia attacked Ukraine because they thought it would be easy, because the Russian military was supposed to be superior to Ukraine.
If Ukraine had an obviously strong defense it would have been unlikely that Russia would have attacked Ukraine.
Having a strong defense is unfortunately necessary because of how the global situation is. And that includes the ability to retaliate with nukes.First time I’ve heard of that, where did you hear this? Searching the web yields nothing.
My example contradicts your point. You don’t have to have nuclear weapons to avoid being a vassal or colony. Ukraine is managing without, and what’s more interesting is that Russia can’t even use nukes against Ukraine to win the war. So in a sense not being a nuclear power gives some protection.
I have to admit I can’t find it myself, all I get is stories about “unpreparedness by the UK” and Russian threats against NATO and EU and UK.
But this came out years ago it may have been while Boris Johnson was still PM.
Boris Johnson was also out with very early warning to Russia about devastating effect to the Russian economy from sanctions.[The closest I can find is this:
https://youtu.be/38wK5l80TS4?t=37Clearly Putin has been send some sort of warning, where Boris states We send a message to Putin on nuclear, and he heard that message.
Maybe the statements about proportional response is an interpretation?
My example contradicts your point. You don’t have to have nuclear weapons to avoid being a vassal or colony.
I still disagree, because the reason Ukraine can do that, is that Ukraine has multiple allies that have nuclear weapons.
With strong allies you obviously don’t need to be a vassal of anybody.
Ukraine is getting really really strong on their own accord now, but still it can never be a match to nuclear weapons. And without the backing from nuclear powers of Ukraine, who knows if Putin could get the idea to use nukes against Ukraine?
I think Putin could be crazy enough to do it, and I definitely think Trump could too. Trump has no moral limitation. The only limitation for him is what he thinks he can get away with. And I think Putin is very similar.
Unfortunately Norway has become a vassal of France. And that’s possibly worse.
I can’t even imagine how deranged a person would have to be to actually believe that.
You must absolutely be trolling.You believe Norway has nuclear capabilities and can independently act militarily as a nation against a nuclear power?
Which one of us is ‘deranged’?
You. 100% you.
OK I take that as a statement you actually believe it, which is very far out there.
Of course I know they don’t have nukes. And so do everybody else. It has been Norwegian policy, and this is actually a change of that policy.
But having an ally is not being a vasal. Is France being a vassal to Norway for doing what Norway want? Or for buying oil from Norway? Am I a vassal of Germany for driving a German car.
Where does you logic start on being a vassal, and where does it end?
I seriously doubt you have the slightest clue on that yourself.
How is that worse than being a vassal of the US?
That’s irrelevant, because of course no European country is a vassal of France.
And not of Germany or UK either.It can be argued that we were voluntary vassals of USA in some regards, because we trusted USA. But that trust has been so thoroughly broken, that all European countries are now clearly breaking free of American dominance.
But for more than half a century the Pax Americana was mutually beneficial. USA has now broken that, and prefer to go it alone instead of having strong allies.
Of course, I was still curious as to what the rationale was.
Have you seen french people?
Yes, I have worked with them, talked with them, etc. Great people. As a Norwegian I have a lot more culturally and politically in common with the French. I’d rather live in a vassal state to a modern liberal democracy over the underdeveloped turd reich.
deleted by creator
Removed for civility
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don’t care what humans think is impossible. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Ooh, black and yellow! Let’s shake it up a little. Barry! Breakfast is ready! Ooming! Hang on a second. Hello?
- Barry?
- Adam?
- Oan you believe this is happening?
- I can’t. I’ll pick you up. Looking sharp. Use the stairs. Your father paid good money for those. Sorry. I’m excited. Here’s the graduate. We’re very proud of you, son. A perfect report card, all B’s. Very proud. Ma! I got a thing going here.
- You got lint on your fuzz.
- Ow! That’s me!
- Wave to us! We’ll be in row 118,000.
- Bye! Barry, I told you, stop flying in the house!
- Hey, Adam.
- Hey, Barry.
- Is that fuzz gel?
- A little. Special day, graduation. Never thought I’d make it. Three days grade school, three days high school. Those were awkward. Three days college. I’m glad I took a day and hitchhiked around the hive. You did come back different.
- Hi, Barry.
- Artie, growing a mustache? Looks good.
- Hear about Frankie?
- Yeah.
- You going to the funeral?
- No, I’m not going. Everybody knows, sting someone, you die. Don’t waste it on a squirrel. Such a hothead. I guess he could have just gotten out of the way. I love this incorporating an amusement park into our day. That’s why we don’t need vacations. Boy, quite a bit of pomp… under the circumstances.
- Well, Adam, today we are men.
- We are!
- Bee-men.
- Amen! Hallelujah! Students, faculty, distinguished bees, please welcome Dean Buzzwell. Welcome, New Hive Oity graduating class of… …9:15. That concludes our ceremonies. And begins your career at Honex Industries! Will we pick ourjob today? I heard it’s just orientation. Heads up! Here we go. Keep your hands and antennas inside the tram at all times.
- Wonder what it’ll be like?
- A little scary. Welcome to Honex, a division of Honesco and a part of the Hexagon Group. This is it! Wow. Wow. We know that you, as a bee, have worked your whole life to get to the point where you can work for your whole life. Honey begins when our valiant Pollen Jocks bring the nectar to the hive. Our top-secret formula is automatically color-corrected, scent-adjusted and bubble-contoured into this soothing sweet syrup with its distinctive golden glow you know as… Honey!
- That girl was hot.
- She’s my cousin!
- She is?
- Yes, we’re all cousins.
- Right. You’re right.
- At Honex, we constantly strive to improve every aspect of bee existence. These bees are stress-testing a new helmet technology.
- What do you think he makes?
- Not enough. Here we have our latest advancement, the Krelman.
- What does that do?
- Oatches that little strand of honey that hangs after you pour it. Saves us millions. Oan anyone work on the Krelman? Of course. Most bee jobs are small ones. But bees know that every small job, if it’s done well, means a lot. But choose carefully because you’ll stay in the job you pick for the rest of your life. The same job the rest of your life? I didn’t know that. What’s the difference? You’ll be happy to know that bees, as a species, haven’t had one day off in 27 million years. So you’ll just work us to death? We’ll sure try. Wow! That blew my mind! “What’s the difference?” How can you say that? One job forever? That’s an insane choice to have to make. I’m relieved. Now we only have to make one decision in life. But, Adam, how could they never have told us that? Why would you question anything? We’re bees. We’re the most perfectly functioning society on Earth. You ever think maybe things work a little too well here? Like what? Give me one example. I don’t know. But you know what I’m talking about. Please clear the gate. Royal Nectar Force on approach. Wait a second. Oheck it out.
- Hey, those are Pollen Jocks!
- Wow. I’ve never seen them this close. They know what it’s like outside the hive. Yeah, but some don’t come back.
- Hey, Jocks!
- Hi, Jocks! You guys did great! You’re monsters! You’re sky freaks! I love it! I love it!
- I wonder where they were.
- I don’t know. Their day’s not planned. Outside the hive, flying who knows where, doing who knows what. You can’tjust decide to be a Pollen Jock. You have to be bred for that. Right. Look. That’s more pollen than you and I will see in a lifetime. It’s just a status symbol. Bees make too much of it. Perhaps. Unless you’re wearing it and the ladies see you wearing it. Those ladies? Aren’t they our cousins too? Distant. Distant. Look at these two.
- Oouple of Hive Harrys.
- Let’s have fun with them. It must be dangerous being a Pollen Jock. Yeah. Once a bear pinned me against a mushroom! He had a paw on my throat, and with the other, he was slapping me!
- Oh, my!
- I never thought I’d knock him out. What were you doing during this? Trying to alert the authorities. I can autograph that. A little gusty out there today, wasn’t it, comrades? Yeah. Gusty. We’re hitting a sunflower patch six miles from here tomorrow.
- Six miles, huh?
- Barry! A puddle jump for us, but maybe you’re not up for it.
- Maybe I am.
- You are not! We’re going 0900 at J-Gate. What do you think, buzzy-boy? Are you bee enough? I might be. It all depends on what 0900 means. Hey, Honex! Dad, you surprised me. You decide what you’re interested in?
- Well, there’s a lot of choices.
- But you only get one. Do you ever get bored doing the same job every day? Son, let me tell you about stirring. You grab that stick, and you just move it around, and you stir it around. You get yourself into a rhythm. It’s a beautiful thing. You know, Dad, the more I think about it, maybe the honey field just isn’t right for me. You were thinking of what, making balloon animals? That’s a bad job for a guy with a stinger. Janet, your son’s not sure he wants to go into honey!
- Barry, you are so funny sometimes.
- I’m not trying to be funny. You’re not funny! You’re going into honey. Our son, the stirrer!
- You’re gonna be a stirrer?
- No one’s listening to me! Wait till you see the sticks I have. I could say anything right now. I’m gonna get an ant tattoo! Let’s open some honey and celebrate! Maybe I’ll pierce my thorax. Shave my antennae. Shack up with a grasshopper. Get a gold tooth and call everybody “dawg”! I’m so proud.
- We’re starting work today!
- Today’s the day. Oome on! All the good jobs will be gone. Yeah, right. Pollen counting, stunt bee, pouring, stirrer, front desk, hair removal…
- Is it still available?
- Hang on. Two left! One of them’s yours! Oongratulations! Step to the side.
- What’d you get?
- Picking crud out. Stellar! Wow! Oouple of newbies? Yes, sir! Our first day! We are ready! Make your choice.
- You want to go first?
- No, you go. Oh, my. What’s available? Restroom attendant’s open, not for the reason you think.
- Any chance of getting the Krelman?
- Sure, you’re on. I’m sorry, the Krelman just closed out. Wax monkey’s always open. The Krelman opened up again. What happened? A bee died. Makes an opening. See? He’s dead. Another dead one. Deady. Deadified. Two more dead. Dead from the neck up. Dead from the neck down. That’s life! Oh, this is so hard! Heating, cooling, stunt bee, pourer, stirrer, humming, inspector number seven, lint coordinator, stripe supervisor, mite wrangler. Barry, what do you think I should… Barry? Barry! All right, we’ve got the sunflower patch in quadrant nine… What happened to you? Where are you?
- I’m going out.
- Out? Out where?
- Out there.
- Oh, no! I have to, before I go to work for the rest of my life. You’re gonna die! You’re crazy! Hello? Another call coming in. If anyone’s feeling brave, there’s a Korean deli on 83rd that gets their roses today. Hey, guys.
- Look at that.
- Isn’t that the kid we saw yesterday? Hold it, son, flight deck’s restricted. It’s OK, Lou. We’re gonna take him up. Really? Feeling lucky, are you? Sign here, here. Just initial that.
- Thank you.
- OK. You got a rain advisory today, and as you all know, bees cannot fly in rain. So be careful. As always, watch your brooms, hockey sticks, dogs, birds, bears and bats. Also, I got a couple of reports of root beer being poured on us. Murphy’s in a home because of it, babbling like a cicada!
- That’s awful.
- And a reminder for you rookies, bee law number one, absolutely no talking to humans! All right, launch positions! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Black and yellow! Hello! You ready for this, hot shot? Yeah. Yeah, bring it on. Wind, check.
- Antennae, check.
- Nectar pack, check.
- Wings, check.
- Stinger, check. Scared out of my shorts, check. OK, ladies, let’s move it out! Pound those petunias, you striped stem-suckers! All of you, drain those flowers! Wow! I’m out! I can’t believe I’m out! So blue. I feel so fast and free! Box kite! Wow! Flowers! This is Blue Leader. We have roses visual. Bring it around 30 degrees and hold. Roses! 30 degrees, roger. Bringing it around. Stand to the side, kid. It’s got a bit of a kick. That is one nectar collector!
- Ever see pollination up close?
- No, sir. I pick up some pollen here, sprinkle it over here. Maybe a dash over there, a pinch on that one. See that? It’s a little bit of magic. That’s amazing. Why do we do that? That’s pollen power. More pollen, more flowers, more nectar, more honey for us. Oool. I’m picking up a lot of bright yellow. Oould be daisies. Don’t we need those? Oopy that visual. Wait. One of these flowers seems to be on the move. Say again? You’re reporting a moving flower? Affirmative. That was on the line! This is the coolest. What is it? I don’t know, but I’m loving this color. It smells good. Not like a flower, but I like it. Yeah, fuzzy. Ohemical-y. Oareful, guys. It’s a little grabby. My sweet lord of bees! Oandy-brain, get off there! Problem!
- Guys!
- This could be bad.
You were not talking about nuclear proliferation in the comment I was responding to, but made the ridiculous claim that Norway turned itself into a vassal of France. Following up towards another poster with a smear against “French people”. That said, I take back my comment towards you in respect of the rules. Maybe you should take back yours too.
I am not sure how arguing for nuclear proliferation means being a Russian bot. Is there a “not” missing? In that case how is nuclear proliferation when it does not change the number of nuclear war heads, does not spread nuclear war heads to another nation nor does it give any additional government control over nuclear warheads.
I was, you assumed otherwise. Norway submitting to France’s ‘protection,’ means they must always agree with France, they cannot ever go against France, otherwise they’d lose protection.
That’s being a vassal state. Vassal states are and were states not powerful enough to defend themselves, so they sought protection from Empires that felt it would be too costly to conquer them but still needed some of their resources.
Nuclear proliferation is the solution to prevent vassal states, and have an actually independent Norway. Unless you’re a nuclear power, you do not have an army. You do not have any form of defense. It does not matter what you do, you are under the vassalage of a nuclear power. Picking France over Russia is fine, I guess, but the effect will always be the same.
I see, I did indeed misunderstand you.
So you are arguing really for proper nuclear proliferation with Norway getting its own independent nuclear capabilities like France. The only small country having nuclear capabilities is Israel, and they surely pay a hefty price for it and are extremely dependend on the support of another major power nonetheless, probably more than Norway is dependent on France, even after this deal.
If France renegades on that deal, the worst thing that happens to Norway is being in the situation form before that deal.
Ukraine has no nuclear warheads and is bombing a nuclear power heavily (defending against its aggression), damaging a lot of its strategically important oil and gas industry btw. A nuclear deterrent is a strong power but it is not the only way to exert hard power, nor does the lack of having nuclear weapons make a country necessarily easy prey.
Friendship with US ended. Now France is my best friend.
France is one of five countries permitted under international treaties to possess nuclear weapons, and one of nine that actually do
🤨
Most treaties froze nuclear weapons to the original five.
Israel, North Korea, India, and Pakistan all developed their nuclear weapons after these treaties were signed.
Charles de Gaulle is rolling in his grave laughing. “See, told ya!”
So what happens when RN takes power next year?
What’s gonna happen? The people who are against this deal and against the interests of their own nations will be overjoyed and Norway can terminate the agreement if France does not honour it.
If people vote for Putin’s men and women, they’ll get what they voted for. Such a deal won’t make much of a difference then.
