That’s a clever joke. I however have radical freedom!
Chooses to put the book outside
I can’t turn to the page cuz it’s an image on a screen.
I would flip a coin and let the universe decide
Unless we have a way to find out what that predetermined future is, it’s irrelevant and you should proceed as if it isn’t a thing.
So you’re saying turn to page 72.
If you like. You can also be a rebel and turn to a different page or stop reading the book altogether.
But then I’ll never know how it ends!
Then you can follow the path created by the author! This kind of reminds me of The Stanley Parable.
“When Stanley came to a set of two open doors, he entered the door on his left.”
But all the pages are 72. And your whole experience is also being described in real time on another page 72 elsewhere. 72s all the way down friend.
I mean technically, since we don’t exist in a deterministic universe, we don’t have a predetermined fate either, the concept of destiny or fate is a cope by itself. It’s debatable that free will exists either. Perhaps neither fate nor free will exists, and everything is just a roll of the quantum die… Hopefully it’s a D20.
Also maybe there’s some concept currently beyond human comprehension that makes it so that a probabilistic universe, deterministic universe and free will can paradoxically work all together.
When I was like 7 my mom bought me a choose your own adventure book. I tried to read it cover to cover and was very confused.
So if you read it cover to cover, what did you think the instructions were about? What about the “turn to page X” parts?
I’m not judging - this is exactly the sort of oblivious thing I would’ve done as a kid too - but I’m curious how it happened.
I specifically remember doing this with one of the goosebumps choose your own adventure. There was a good ending page that referenced nirvana (the idea not the band) and I read that thing end to end choosing both choices for everything. No page ever sent you to it. It was just a contrivance that you were sent to glance at while flipping through.
Okay that’s kind of amazing, you found an easter egg in an out of bounds area.
I didn’t know Fallout 4 had a graphic novel!
Haha, fuck fate. I have free will!
Throws the book in the fireplace
The predetermined universe smiles when the book’s fate is being fulfilled.
what does it look like when a universe smiles?
Your guess is just as valid as mine.
book lands in fireplace open on page 72
But the book only has 71 pages
Pg 72 is in volume 2.
If you are interested, buy volume 2. Else, buy volume 2.
One cauld rightfully argue “determination” and “predetermination” are wildly different concepts. The comic is wrong on this. But let’s go page 72 anyway
I’m taking my towel to page 42. You can’t fool me!
Quiet. Accept your servitude to propaganda and conditioning.
You could have stopped at (universal) servitude. But yeah, they say it all becomes clear p.72!
Hell yeah how good is determinism
That is yet to be determined.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UebSfjmQNvs - Kurzgesagt - Lemmings will reee optimistic greenwashing.
Can Free Will be Saved in a Deterministic Universe? PBS Space Time - And it’s counter argument page https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2020/11/15/free-will-video/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/free-will-is-only-an-illusion-if-you-are-too/ - I’m glad to the coincidence regarding see my semantics point regarding ‘Free will’ being a somewhat outdated term being a key point in this article.
And yet I can speak about my consciousness, and therefore deliver information to you based on an experience which can’t be physically observed or quantified.
Perhaps the universe is naught but a comforting illusion.
deliver information to you based on an experience which can’t be physically observed or quantified
I’m not sure if “Black Box of electro-chemistry” is necessarily the same as “Non-determinism”.
That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren’t trivial to map or anticipate.
That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.
Yeah, I was curious if anyone would catch that. My comment doesn’t necessarily ensure free will, it just rejects a physicalist model of reality as a basis for determinism. You can have neutral monism and still have determinism.
I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting idealist takes in response to shitty physicalist takes. 🤭
I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting
🫡
In that case, carry on.
Neutral monism just looks like “we have to have souls because the science is uncomfortable to me” but for atheists lol
That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren’t trivial to map or anticipate.
That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.
How does higher uncertainty of my choices achieving what I strive for raise the perception of freedom of said choice?
higher uncertainty of my choices achieving what I strive for
More higher uncertainty of an outside observer predicting the choices you will make.
The inability to anticipate another person’s actions suggests they may have internal agency. Compared to say, a rock, which you can shove and confidently predict where it will stop moving, a human is far more difficult to judge.
I don’t understand what you are getting at. You are either saying that you can predict where a fly is going to go when you set it free or you are saying that a fly has internal agency.
You are either saying that you can predict where a fly is going to go when you set it free or you are saying that a fly has internal agency.
If the fly lacks agency, you would be able to predict its movement given a sufficiently accurate set of information.
If it has agency, you could not.
It’s difficult to predict the path of a leaf floating in the wind, but I don’t think anybody would say a leaf has agency.
It’s difficult to predict the path of a leaf floating in the wind
Orders of magnitude less difficult, as the leaf can’t glean your intent and respond accordingly.
You missed the point while drawing your circular argument.
Take what you said and replace fly with human. Wait here I’ll do it for you:
If a human lacks agency, you would be able to predict its movement given a sufficiently accurate set of information.
If it has agency, you could not.
Now tell me how you will acquire a sufficiently accurate set of information about a human and its environment to test your hypothesis.
Now tell me how you will acquire a sufficiently accurate set of information about a human and its environment to test your hypothesis.
You can’t. That’s a significant problem of identifying the existence or absence of “Free Will”.
You could be a Boltzmann Brain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
Of course, from my perspective, I would be the Boltzmann brain and you would be my dream.
ChatGPT can speak about its consciousness too, but there’s no reason to believe it actually is conscious. It’s just very good at writing text that imitates text written by beings that believe they’re conscious. It’s difficult to understand how ChatGPT generates that text. But, if anybody were sufficiently interested, it would be possible to trace the entire process, since it’s just computers processing data.
Also, MRIs can observe the brain as it does things. Currently it’s a pretty blunt tool and can only guess at what someone is thinking, but there’s no reason to assume that a much more advanced version won’t be capable of observing and quantifying the actions of every neuron in real time.
that doesn’t necessarily mean it is possible though. just to be clear
Mean what’s possible?
Would be nice if there was a hidden ending on page 57
I am disappointed in how long it took me to see the joke, but its a good one! I’m gonna have to go with page 72.
This reminds me of that one riddler comic (Found it, batman black and white #5 “The Riddle”, here’s a reddit link since that was the easiest to find https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/tn8b68/ )
It’s a creative and very short choose your own adventure and I highly recommend it
*turns to page 60 like a boss
“Welcome to page 60! Just as anticipated, your rebellious nature resulting from your lived experiences left you no choice but to rebel against the rules of the book and pick this page.”
But why 60? Is every page of the book like this? Or has it used a sort of behavioural psychology to make me choose 60 instead of another page?
It’s not 60 for everyone, but it is for some. Everyone has vastly different lived experiences dictating their ‘choices’ of which page.
So yeah, behavioural psych-ish.
