- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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MoU or not, an unstable region has been rendered even more dangerous by the unforced war of choice launched and America. The world will be coping with its repercussions for months, if not years.
Yeah, the Middle East is inherwntly unstable and then this totally unrelated foreign meddling happened. ::eyeroll::
We got a black eye and we deserved it. Someone should bloody our nose, too, to make sure we got the message. Fucking stupid.
usa could have won the war but trump had a date with a tween at a very crucial juncture in the negotiations and missed a “war winning” opportunity. /s
Great, now that that’s done… Can we get back to the TRUMP-EPSTEIN FILES ™ ?
No, we didn’t lose.
We surrendered.
And you know what? Sure. That’s the right move. We shouldn’t have fucking invaded them to begin with.
Fucking Trump. What a goddamn moronic dumbass he is.
What a goddamn
moronic dumbass he isprolific executor and efficient implementer of putin’s and xi’s blackmail demands on himPretty sure you have to have shame to be blackmailed. We all know what trump did, he doesn’t give a shit.
Bro, there is video and picture evidence this guy joyously ritualistically torturing, raping, and killing children and babies.
In case you you haven’t had your soul ripped out yet, go on a little quest to find out what “u9 red pizza party” means in the Epstein files.
He’s not running away from shame. He’s running away from the death penalty.
Ok yes but… isn’t surrendering claiming you lost?
Can’t lose a war if you never call it a war.
Ask the Mimbari
What a dumb loser
He may be a dumb loser but don’t forget he’s also in the Epstein files.
What a dumb ass in Epstein files loser
That’s the Trump-Epstein Files™.
Don’t forget the Trump files, that Epstein collected on him for the Mossad to force them into war together with Israel if needed, like with Iran for example, and which Epstein also sold pieces of to Putin.
THE BIGGEST, BESTEST, MOST WONDERFUL MENTIONS I THE EPSTEIN FILES. THE LIKES NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN! EVERYONE IS SAYING SO!
FIFA wants to give the a new prise they just made for me, the world piece (of shit) price for the most honorably mentions in the Epstein files. It even comes with a medal.
Americans, especially the Government, all have a collective delusion that the United States place in the world is just the way it was right after WW2 and nothing will ever change it. Over the next decade or so, reality will continue setting in…
Operation Epic Failure. The primary shows was in the southern Lebanon and the West Bank, while the MAGA led fiasco was the side show.
The problem now is that Mr Trump has endowed Iran with a far more useful option than any nuclear device: the effective weaponisation of the Strait of Hormuz. This is a weapon of mass economic destruction of unique power. It was given satisfactory proof of use during the conflict, when not even US armed forces and a naval counter-blockade could prevent an enfeebled Tehran from taking the world economy hostage.
Nukes are defensive, this seems to work for both defence and offence
Meh. States in the Arabian peninsula just need to enlarge the already existing pipelines that run north to Turkey, the Mediterranean, and the Caucuses and south to the Arabian Sea. Bypass the straight entirely. Existing pipelines demonstrate that someone has already had this idea long ago, but for whatever reason (logical efficiency…) existing infrastructure is sea based and passes through the straight. This is very easily corrected, and the states involved have the cash to do it, and demand for their product exists- strongly. Iran has played their very weak hand very well- for now. This round, they win. Next round, maybe not so likely. The Sunni states on the Arabian peninsula have no love for the Shia or for Iran. It’ll take a few years to reconfigure, but the days of Iran’s advantage here are numbered and finite.
It only works when the US navy doesn’t engage the way it can. Trump lost there because he pulled out the navy but left it limp, just sitting on the front yard. If it went hard and actually did something substantial, the picture would have been very different.
How could the navy had gone harder? Should they move closer so air refueling is not necessary? This would probably get them hit.
Trump ran into the same problem Dubya and his daddy did in Iraq & Afghanistan- sure we can topple the government and defeat their military. That’s easy-peasy. But after we do that, who’s gonna run the country? In all cases, the answer is “nobody who is acceptable to the US”, so the US ends up having to step in and run the place for a time so that it doesn’t immediately devolve into “new boss, same old bullshit”. Leave a political vacuum in that part of the world and it gets filled by Al Quaida, ISIS, Taliban, or other radical groups that battle it out among themselves for decades, creating another Lebanon. Or Iraq. Or Afghanistan.
The government has been trying this weird half-assed interventionism since actual interventionism is such a hard sell post-Iraq and Afghanistan. Some bombing here, an attempt to arm rebel groups there… and if it fails, that’s for the locals to clean up. I’d argue this goes back to Obama and Trump continued it, but in a room temp IQ way that only Trump can manage.
If by different you mean the loss of american war ships and the same result, sure.
Not saying those are not capable ships, just that that is not the environment they where made to operate in. A nightmare theater for any navy, let alone one with almost no small escort ships (an issue they are well aware of). To make it worse there is nothing for them to do, nothing to really fight there, just risk, mines, minisubs, and land based death. I can see an destroyer in that strait intercepting missiles and drones all day, but to what end? No civilian tanker was going to join them.
It sounds like cope but… yeah pretty much this. Trump was too scared of dead soldiers, a sunk boat or downed planes to allow any commitment of assets in a way that would have accomplished any of his goals, and as a result the US military was stuck with strategies proved useless by HERMANN FUCKING GORING. It was such a fucking ridiculous loss of life because seventy years of military history have shown that it could never have accomplished anything and was entirely just trump being a pissbaby, but this time with a couple thousand dead people as a backdrop.
FUCK this fucking administration.
I’m happy with this result. I was rooting against America for the whole conflict.
I am rooting against America in general.
America has a big ego and is subservient to Israel. It needs to be humbled so it can stop flexing its nuts and start taking care of its own people.
I say this as one of those people in America watching America punish transwomen instead of combating food insecurity…
Not a war. Lol
I’m happy we lost but sad that I will be paying for reparations with my tax dollars.
The US has been on the losing side of every armed conflict it’s been involved with for the past 80 years.
Its current “leadership” believes that streak is at least twice that.
Didn’t America win the war with Iraq though? I could be wrong since I’m not super informed on the war in Iraq, but we militarily defeated Saddam Hasan. Other than that though, if you count both sides in the Korean War as losers, then you’re right
They won the opening act, and the operation was one of the best ever pulled off but they lost the overall conflict when they had to abandon Iraq. Although Gulf War 1 and 2 are studied as examples of great execution of a military strike campaign. The issue is that unlike the Gulf Wars where the us did strikes then claimed the win (with some oil set on fire), in 2003 they did the strikes, then stuck around. The us never wins in a conflict where they have to hold conquered ground, they are really bad with it. I can’t think of a time they have succeeded, WW1 and 2 they did not have to hold territory alone, and more or less liberated and joint occupied places, in Korea they fucked up and got China involved leading to a never ending conflict that is still technically going, they got their ass kicked out of Vietnam, Bay of pigs was a failure before it really got anywhere, and then there is Afghanistan a total mess.
The wild part to me is that a lot of these conflicts are listed as US wins, or inconclusive when by any real measure they where all massive fuck ups. This last one with Iran did not even get to a point where the US was even getting to the point they where threatened Iran’s government, let alone an occupation. Like it was not even possible for the states to get to the point of prior wars before, no real way to invade and not just have massive losses, no real way to hurt Iran outside of war crimes (they did those too but to little effect on Iran’s ability to rule). This “war” I think was more impactful as the end of the us empire’s mythos, they just showed the world they have very real limits and are no longer the super power they have claimed to be.
Don’t forget, this war was very likely initiated by Netanyahu. All they managed to do was make Iran stronger, what a bunch of fucking morons.
No, that wasn’t the only outcome. Iran got richer and the world got to see that the military might of the USA is much less mighty than they want the world to know.
That’s what happens when you fill the upper ranks with yes-men
at least 2/3 of the global northern empires have fallen for the dictator’s trap
Netanyahu is not a moron, making Iran weaker wasn’t his goal. Forever war was, to have a foil to play for domestic political purposes.
It’s his “keeping himself out of jail” plan. Just like with Thwump. The only way not to go to jail is to stay President.
Exactly what he did with Hamas all these years.
The villain loves creating his own enemies to keep his political career going.
Not to mention Gaza and the West Bank has been out of the news cycle. The colonists have been doing some heinous shit since the war happened.
Yep, but his biggest blunder was to trust Trump to help him out all the way. What makes Netanyahu a moron in my books is that now after a few years Iran will be stronger and led by military. It will hurt Israel in the long term.
That’s going to depend on whether US support for the Zionist project will be as unconditional as it has been so far.
The electorate on both sides have definitely soured on Israel, organically. I only expect the evangelicals to stay the same. AIPAC is having to reach deep into its war chest to buy elections and increasingly obfuscate its contributions through shell PACs now.
The whole point of the war was to stop oil sales in chinese yuan. It’s as simple as that.
Gold has been surging and that was because they country was trading gold for yuan to buy oil. Now they can’t do that. Oil is traded in USD again.
Did it stop though? Why can’t they use RMB, what changed?
Because we sent the us military to stop RMB oil sales
Because of the war, emerging markets are trading oil in yen. I don’t know what your talking about.
Have you not been following the gold price surging?
Unfortunately no, that’s not their sole achievement.
Israel has occupied territories in Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Irak. And will likely annex some areas excusing it with ,national security interests". In reality the greater aim seem to be ,greater israel" which covers the whole are promised to them in some obscure book.
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They managed to ramp up military/weapons spending in the US and Europe, and massively boosted the price of oil. The idea that Trump lost is naive in my opinion, this was a big cash grab just like Venezuela was and certain people will have profited massively from it.
Trump didn’t lose, but the US did.
That precisely describes his election and everything since.
Very true although I would extend that to most of the world, it’s not just the US suffering from his actions unfortunately.
Whatever influence Netanyahyu had, it’s naive to buy into the “Israel tricked the US” narrative. I’ll remind you that Iran and the US have been on hostile terms since 1979. Every president has considered, or launched military options on Iran since then.
The problem with the “Israel tricked the US” isn’t so much that it plays into antisemitic tropes (though it does), it’s that it absolves the US from Israel’s adventures and crimes. It’s not our fault you see, we were bamboozeled by those crafty Hebrews.
Netanyahu launched the war by killing Khamenei, while we were in the middle of negotiations no less. This is 100℅ Israels fault, and we should have pulled out the instant it happened and let Israel fight its own wars for once.
I’ll remind you that Iran and the US have been on hostile terms since 1979. Every president has considered, or launched military options on Iran since then.
OK, And when did the US congress start voting nearly 100% favorably on every vote friendly to Israel? I bet if you checked you’d see that AIPAC bribers controlling congress want back farther than you’d guess. Before 1979.
There was an article in WP or NYT in March detailing the meeting where Netanyahu sold the war to Trump.
Nothing absolves the US from the crimes in this war. I’m pointing out Netanyahu’s role, since he has probably made Israel yet again less secure by ultimately handing Iran a stronger hand. But he also supported Hamas back in the day to replace moderate Palestinian voices with extremists. Didn’t turn out so well for the ordinary citizens of Israel.
It’s naive to say “Israel gets to do whatever they want.” (See? I can quote things the person I’m replying to didn’t say to make a strawman, too).
Dude, Trump could be tricked by a rotting sweater. And I fucking hate the “everything about Israel is antisemitic” narrative.
Is Iran stronger? How so?
The moderate voices in its government were purged or killed, the popular protests against the hard-line Islamists have been crushed and sidelined, there’s a (tiny, but unprecedented) wedge driven between the U.S. and Israeli leaders, Israel has lost popular support in much of the West, and its ability to put a chokehold on the world economy via the Strait of Hormuz has been demonstrated without any tangible contest.
Iran learned they can topple any US government with restrictions on oil. Who needs nukes when you have thirsty brahs in Silverados.
Do you seriously need someone to explain to you why the country that just chased the American Empire out of the Persian Gulf is stronger than it was before?
They’re politically stronger now.
they proved they could stand up to the US and win. US proved, again, that bombing countries accomplishes nothing.
Besides the other replies, Iran has achieved a huge PR coup by revealing that the US is a paper tiger. The popularity of the US among western countries has never been lower because Trump’s Blunder pooched the global economy. Former allies are walking away from economic and military cooperation with the US.
Additionally, the US has to pay Iran 300B in war reparations as part of their surrender. The iranian regime will probably divert those funds to entrench their power.
I really hope that doesn’t affect the status quo in the Taiwan strait
Plus lifted sanctions and likely the right to profit from safe passage over Hormuz.
Man who would have thought that the most incompetent and unqualified demented rapist to ever hold the office would be played like a fucking fiddle.
he is the only idiot out of all the surviving US presidents to agree to Netanyahu’s idea of bombing Iran
