Everytime I hear it introduced as “horse dewormer”. The bias is already made clear.
While Mel Gibson is clearly off his rocker in that Ivermectin can’t do jack shit against cancer… So is OP for acting like it’s not safe for human consumption. It’s safe for consumption even at 10x a “normal” dosage (with all the Covid-19 studies showing that while more or less ineffective for COVID, not at all harmful otherwise at up to 3000μg/kg… or 15x a typical dosage http://ssrn.com/abstract=3714649).
IVM has been used safely in 3.7 billion doses worldwide since 1987
It’s 100% safe… and boatloads of it have been given to humans for longer than most people arguing about this shit have been alive.
Safety’s a good thing, but efficacy is what’s really needed. And it has been proven to have no efficacy for the conditions it is being hyped for. Absolutely none.
Eating rice pudding is safe too. It’s not an effective treatment for covid either.
What’s not safe is when someone fails to resort to an effective treatment because they’re instead fooled into using one that does nothing. And that’s what’s happening with ivermectin.
What’s not safe is when someone fails to resort to an effective treatment because they’re instead fooled into using one that does nothing. And that’s what’s happening with Ivermectin.
Cool, then piss on the people that make the call for the ineffective treatment. Not the perfectly useful drug that is in public domain and saved millions (many millions) of lives with 3.7 Billion doses consumed.
Edit: If a COVID denier told you to just drink water and you’ll get over it. Would you then turn around and call water “horse hydrating water” for the rest of your life? Do you not see how 1) absolutely stupid you’d look and 2) that you’re attempting to put down water by saying it? Even though it’s literally required to keep you alive?
While Ivermectin isn’t “required” to live… for many it’s the only answer. Now they’ll be stigmatized for no fucking reason other than this constant fucking rant of “horse dewormer”. At this point I don’t doubt that someone has turned down a legitimate use of Ivermectin over this shit, probably had to go for an alternative drug that is not in the public domain and paid some pharma company boatloads to do it. So like I’ve said probably a dozen times at this point. Piss on the people making the shit claim. Not the perfectly valid drugs that have very valuable purposes.
Because all the people taking it for COVID (and probably trying to cure cancer) were not getting it from the doctor. They were getting it from Farm supply stores . Everyone was calling it horse dewormer because that’s what it was. They were not going to get a prescription. I know because I live amongst these dummies that were asking on Facebook which one to get from the farm supply, what flavor was best, etc.
This is way more common than your nonsense “well people are ordering from the farm supply store!”
I think either one of two things… You’ve fallen for a troll with your “dummies on Facebook”, or you’re lying, unknowingly or otherwise, in your claim that this is how “everyone” was getting it.
Once again (because it’s apparent that at least half of lemmy is incapable of reading based on the downvotes), I’m not stupid enough to think that Ivermectin does anything useful for COVID-19. But just because you saw 1-2 people on Facebook say something completely fucking dumb doesn’t mean that the whole of people taking the drug are doing it that way, or that the normal non-horse paste version of the medicine is hard to get a hold of. This is literally one of the most by dosage consumed medications of the planet. Very few people are taking the horse paste version of this thing when the pills are so readily available.
And even then… EVEN THEN, so what? Let the idiots eat their horse paste. Hopefully they choke on the filler and society becomes smarter for it… The drug itself is shown to be safe (though ineffective for what they’re hoping for). One of the links I posted previously showed no ill effects for up to 3000μg/kg (which only tested that high… not that it wouldn’t be safe at higher dosages). That paste you linked? is 200 μg/kg for it’s target 1250 horse. So for a 200lb human is 1250μg/kg. Well within “safe” tolerances, assuming they’re eating the whole damn tube. Laugh at them for being stupid sure, but I don’t see where ivermectin as one of the cheapest most taken drugs on the planet needs to garner a bad wrap from this. It’s saved boatloads of lives over it’s ~50 years in service now. It’s not “horse” dewormer. It as a drug is good for just about any parasite removal in just about ANY living animal… of which humans are indeed animals.
Why are you so invested in defending the reputation of ivermectin as a parasite treatment? That’s not what anyone else is discussing here.
The reality remains that, if an ineffective treatment is used in place of an effective treatment, people are going to get sick and often die. And whether it’s effective for some other use is irrelevant.
Sorry. But I’m not interested in talking to someone who claims “that’s not what were talking about” when that’s literally the core part of the discussion as started by OP.
It is labeled for horses primarily. Approved for and customarily used on animals first. You know, humans don’t get many worms where the drug was invented and made. It’s like, some adults wear diapers, but when someone says diapers the user you picture is a baby. You say Ivermectin, and anyone that knows anything about it thinks horses. It’s used by vets more than doctors. It’s available, I believe, over the counter, at farm supply stores. Humans require a prescription, in the US, anyway.
Sometimes public ridicule is an appropriate remedy when social conduct is harmful yet not illegal.
In context, Mary Mallon was medically quarantined against her will, for life, because she refused to stop knowingly spreading disease. She broke the social contract. The social contract requires basic personal hygiene. The horse paste people anti-mask types are breaking the contract; they waste medication, they take up medical resources, and they knowingly spread disease. The same people take huge dumps and then don’t wash their hands.
And now, some Shakespeare:
“All the contagion of the south light on you, You shames of Rome! you herd of–boils and plagues. Plaster you o’er, that you may be abhorr’d. [Now go], further than [can be] seen, and one infect another, [and then go] against the wind [another] mile!”
It is only in the sense that third-world countries that rely on it just freely give it out rather than making it prescribed. Case and point being that it’s freely available in Mexico, as linked above.
Humans require a prescription, in the US, anyway.
US only accounts for ~350 million of the many BILLIONS of people on the planet. We’re talking about a drug that has been taken by BILLIONS and you can’t shut the fuck up about the 350 million Americans?
It is labeled for horses primarily. Approved for and customarily used on animals first.
Initial research RELEASED the drugs for animals first… Mostly because it’s easier to get approval for animal drugs than human drugs.
However, this drug has been trialed to humans since ~1980 (Animals is credited as “late 70’s”, but “was initially introduced as a commercial product for Animal Health in 1981”). So really no difference in timelines here comparatively… But you go ahead and keep lying about shit. If your qualifier that it’s “animal first” is that it was trialed in animals mere months before it was trialed in humans, then sure, you’re right. But I’m taking issue with that. That’s bullshit and you should know it. And yes, it’s also normal for human trials to last much longer than animal ones. Thus why it was on trials for years.
Where’s all these people when Ketamine is mentioned saying “no you can’t use it in hospitals on people because Vetaket exists” huh? It’s wild watching the world completely accept that Ketamine or Amoxicilin etc can be used on animals and humans, but then be completely propagandized that this one particular dewormer only works on equidae even though it’s been used as a human dewormer since its existence. Sure it does fuck all against covid and claims to the contrary should be shot down but “HoRsE” isn’t it, “viruses aren’t worms” is better.
When we are talking about its efficacy against covid, it is utterly irrelevant whether Ivermectin has some other use. For covid, it is a quack remedy.
Now, just to spell it out even more for you and some others who keep sidestepping the point:
Use of any treatment that is not efficacious for a given condition risks diverting people from the use of treatments that are efficacious. That means those people will be at higher risk of sickness and death, since the treatment they are taking doesn’t work.
A treatment that is efficacious for some entirely different purpose is still not efficacious for some other condition, unless and until it is proven so by research.
Whether that different purpose involves horses, people or fucking marmosets is irrelevant. We’re not talking about that. We’re talking about a particular condition that has nothing to do with the on-label use.
So it’s not clear to me what you are struggling with here. OTHER USES ARE IRRELEVANT TO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER IT WORKS FOR THE PURPOSE ACTUALLY BEING DISCUSSED. End of.
To me it’s literally akin to “Corn is used in cow feed” therefore “Corn is only for cows”.
It’s asinine and stupid.
Now the clarification could be that “Lesser grade corn is used in cow feed” therefore “you shouldn’t eat cow feed”.
But that’s never the claim anytime I see “horse dewormer ivermectin” and never has any evidence been provided that it’s any different quality or type of ivermectin in the horse paste. Even if that difference in “quality” would even matter to begin with especially since the drug has been open marketed for so long and it’s production commoditized so much. I wouldn’t doubt for a moment that the same fucking factory pumps out both pill and whatever gets mixed into the horse paste… probably just the original pill product in powder form.
Everytime I hear it introduced as “horse dewormer”. The bias is already made clear.
While Mel Gibson is clearly off his rocker in that Ivermectin can’t do jack shit against cancer… So is OP for acting like it’s not safe for human consumption. It’s safe for consumption even at 10x a “normal” dosage (with all the Covid-19 studies showing that while more or less ineffective for COVID, not at all harmful otherwise at up to 3000μg/kg… or 15x a typical dosage http://ssrn.com/abstract=3714649).
It’s 100% safe… and boatloads of it have been given to humans for longer than most people arguing about this shit have been alive.
Source: https://www.eurekaselect.com/article/41838
TL;DR… While probably useless for anything that people recently attribute to it… It’s safe for consumption as a general rule.
Safety’s a good thing, but efficacy is what’s really needed. And it has been proven to have no efficacy for the conditions it is being hyped for. Absolutely none.
Eating rice pudding is safe too. It’s not an effective treatment for covid either.
What’s not safe is when someone fails to resort to an effective treatment because they’re instead fooled into using one that does nothing. And that’s what’s happening with ivermectin.
Cool, then piss on the people that make the call for the ineffective treatment. Not the perfectly useful drug that is in public domain and saved millions (many millions) of lives with 3.7 Billion doses consumed.
Edit: If a COVID denier told you to just drink water and you’ll get over it. Would you then turn around and call water “horse hydrating water” for the rest of your life? Do you not see how 1) absolutely stupid you’d look and 2) that you’re attempting to put down water by saying it? Even though it’s literally required to keep you alive?
While Ivermectin isn’t “required” to live… for many it’s the only answer. Now they’ll be stigmatized for no fucking reason other than this constant fucking rant of “horse dewormer”. At this point I don’t doubt that someone has turned down a legitimate use of Ivermectin over this shit, probably had to go for an alternative drug that is not in the public domain and paid some pharma company boatloads to do it. So like I’ve said probably a dozen times at this point. Piss on the people making the shit claim. Not the perfectly valid drugs that have very valuable purposes.
Bud they’re tricking idiots who need actual medicine into taking something that won’t help, and that gets people killed.
People who take medical advice from Trump and Mel Gibson would have been eaten by the Lion anyways.
And lying by stating its for horses in a manner that makes someone assume it’s not for humans at all resolves what?
Because all the people taking it for COVID (and probably trying to cure cancer) were not getting it from the doctor. They were getting it from Farm supply stores . Everyone was calling it horse dewormer because that’s what it was. They were not going to get a prescription. I know because I live amongst these dummies that were asking on Facebook which one to get from the farm supply, what flavor was best, etc.
First you’re going to have to define “they”. The people that I unfortunately live around are part of this “they” group with your implied “all the people taking it for COVID” definition. All of them simply got the pills from Mexico, where you can walk into any farmacia and pick up boxes upon boxes of the stuff for like 1$ per pill. They’re setup for this down there… and talking to them when I was last there nearly 100% of their purchases come from the USA. And just like you, I can link a store, even several!
https://medsmex.com.mx/store/stromectol-ivexterm-ivermectin-6-mg-4-tabs/p-4734.html
https://arecovpharma.com/medications/products-covid-19
https://mexipharmacy.mx/eng/item/3686/veridex-ivermectin-4tab-6mg
This is way more common than your nonsense “well people are ordering from the farm supply store!”
I think either one of two things… You’ve fallen for a troll with your “dummies on Facebook”, or you’re lying, unknowingly or otherwise, in your claim that this is how “everyone” was getting it.
Once again (because it’s apparent that at least half of lemmy is incapable of reading based on the downvotes), I’m not stupid enough to think that Ivermectin does anything useful for COVID-19. But just because you saw 1-2 people on Facebook say something completely fucking dumb doesn’t mean that the whole of people taking the drug are doing it that way, or that the normal non-horse paste version of the medicine is hard to get a hold of. This is literally one of the most by dosage consumed medications of the planet. Very few people are taking the horse paste version of this thing when the pills are so readily available.
And even then… EVEN THEN, so what? Let the idiots eat their horse paste. Hopefully they choke on the filler and society becomes smarter for it… The drug itself is shown to be safe (though ineffective for what they’re hoping for). One of the links I posted previously showed no ill effects for up to 3000μg/kg (which only tested that high… not that it wouldn’t be safe at higher dosages). That paste you linked? is 200 μg/kg for it’s target 1250 horse. So for a 200lb human is 1250μg/kg. Well within “safe” tolerances, assuming they’re eating the whole damn tube. Laugh at them for being stupid sure, but I don’t see where ivermectin as one of the cheapest most taken drugs on the planet needs to garner a bad wrap from this. It’s saved boatloads of lives over it’s ~50 years in service now. It’s not “horse” dewormer. It as a drug is good for just about any parasite removal in just about ANY living animal… of which humans are indeed animals.
Why are you so invested in defending the reputation of ivermectin as a parasite treatment? That’s not what anyone else is discussing here.
The reality remains that, if an ineffective treatment is used in place of an effective treatment, people are going to get sick and often die. And whether it’s effective for some other use is irrelevant.
Sorry. But I’m not interested in talking to someone who claims “that’s not what were talking about” when that’s literally the core part of the discussion as started by OP.
K
It is labeled for horses primarily. Approved for and customarily used on animals first. You know, humans don’t get many worms where the drug was invented and made. It’s like, some adults wear diapers, but when someone says diapers the user you picture is a baby. You say Ivermectin, and anyone that knows anything about it thinks horses. It’s used by vets more than doctors. It’s available, I believe, over the counter, at farm supply stores. Humans require a prescription, in the US, anyway.
Sometimes public ridicule is an appropriate remedy when social conduct is harmful yet not illegal.
In context, Mary Mallon was medically quarantined against her will, for life, because she refused to stop knowingly spreading disease. She broke the social contract. The social contract requires basic personal hygiene. The horse paste people anti-mask types are breaking the contract; they waste medication, they take up medical resources, and they knowingly spread disease. The same people take huge dumps and then don’t wash their hands.
And now, some Shakespeare:
It is only in the sense that third-world countries that rely on it just freely give it out rather than making it prescribed. Case and point being that it’s freely available in Mexico, as linked above.
US only accounts for ~350 million of the many BILLIONS of people on the planet. We’re talking about a drug that has been taken by BILLIONS and you can’t shut the fuck up about the 350 million Americans?
Initial research RELEASED the drugs for animals first… Mostly because it’s easier to get approval for animal drugs than human drugs.
However, this drug has been trialed to humans since ~1980 (Animals is credited as “late 70’s”, but “was initially introduced as a commercial product for Animal Health in 1981”). So really no difference in timelines here comparatively… But you go ahead and keep lying about shit. If your qualifier that it’s “animal first” is that it was trialed in animals mere months before it was trialed in humans, then sure, you’re right. But I’m taking issue with that. That’s bullshit and you should know it. And yes, it’s also normal for human trials to last much longer than animal ones. Thus why it was on trials for years.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3043740/
So once again… kindly fuck off with the lying about the medicine. You’re better than that.
Berate the moron, not the functional medicine.
Where’s all these people when Ketamine is mentioned saying “no you can’t use it in hospitals on people because Vetaket exists” huh? It’s wild watching the world completely accept that Ketamine or Amoxicilin etc can be used on animals and humans, but then be completely propagandized that this one particular dewormer only works on equidae even though it’s been used as a human dewormer since its existence. Sure it does fuck all against covid and claims to the contrary should be shot down but “HoRsE” isn’t it, “viruses aren’t worms” is better.
When we are talking about its efficacy against covid, it is utterly irrelevant whether Ivermectin has some other use. For covid, it is a quack remedy.
Now, just to spell it out even more for you and some others who keep sidestepping the point:
Use of any treatment that is not efficacious for a given condition risks diverting people from the use of treatments that are efficacious. That means those people will be at higher risk of sickness and death, since the treatment they are taking doesn’t work.
A treatment that is efficacious for some entirely different purpose is still not efficacious for some other condition, unless and until it is proven so by research.
Whether that different purpose involves horses, people or fucking marmosets is irrelevant. We’re not talking about that. We’re talking about a particular condition that has nothing to do with the on-label use.
So it’s not clear to me what you are struggling with here. OTHER USES ARE IRRELEVANT TO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER IT WORKS FOR THE PURPOSE ACTUALLY BEING DISCUSSED. End of.
To me it’s literally akin to “Corn is used in cow feed” therefore “Corn is only for cows”.
It’s asinine and stupid.
Now the clarification could be that “Lesser grade corn is used in cow feed” therefore “you shouldn’t eat cow feed”.
But that’s never the claim anytime I see “horse dewormer ivermectin” and never has any evidence been provided that it’s any different quality or type of ivermectin in the horse paste. Even if that difference in “quality” would even matter to begin with especially since the drug has been open marketed for so long and it’s production commoditized so much. I wouldn’t doubt for a moment that the same fucking factory pumps out both pill and whatever gets mixed into the horse paste… probably just the original pill product in powder form.
so you think Mel Gibson‘s friends got their ivermectin from a farm supply store?
I don’t think Mel Gibson has any friends.
It’s very likely off-label use, so maybe.
Possibly, but probably from one of those dodgy Hollywood doctors who will prescribe anything they want.
Nothing is 100% safe, with the curious exception of ultrasound which is considered 100% safe.
Edit: obviously don’t take medical advice from trump or any other idiot, go to the doctor, take your vaccines and keep calm when sick.
I don’t think it’d be very safe to consume an ultrasound. Sounds like a lot of metal and plastic leading to intestinal blockages at best.