MJ calls what happened to her in Zion national park “small ‘T’ trauma”. She knows women have experienced worse from their partners. But she still feels the anger of being left behind on a hike by her now ex. “It brings up stuff in my body that maybe I have not cleared out yet,” she said.
Five years ago, MJ and a new partner – he was not exactly her boyfriend, and the pair were not exclusive – traveled from Los Angeles to Utah for an adventure getaway. MJ, who is 38 and works in PR, was looking forward to exploring Zion’s striking scenery; its vast sandstone canyon and pristine wading trails were on the list. But on the morning of their big hike, MJ was not feeling well. She could not shake the feeling that something was “off”; indeed, MJ would learn on this trip that her partner was seeing other women.
As they made their way up Angel’s Landing, MJ’s partner started walking faster than her. “I could tell it was getting on his nerves that I was slow,” she said. “I was like, ‘Fuck it, just go ahead of me.’” He did without hesitation.
When she caught up at the top of the mountain, they took a picture together. Then her partner hiked down the mountain with a woman he had met on the way up, leaving MJ to finish by herself. They broke up shortly after that trip. (MJ asked to be referred to by her initials for the sake of speaking openly about a past relationship.)
Last month, MJ opened TikTok and heard the phrase “alpine divorce”, a label she now attaches to her experience in Zion.
what so hard about breaking over a text even, even if its a little insensitive.
This sounds like what they called the starlight tours out in Saskatchewan.
deep racism where many people were outright murdered.
This shit going on with women is not seen as serious overall by society. It’s so very fucked up in two different fronts
This is so fucking sexist.
Hey everyone, women are just as capable of surviving in the mountains as men!
There’s some safety and ethical rules in the mountains. You don’t leave your hiking/climbing partner unless you both agree it’s fine. Gender of this partner doesn’t matter. Guy leaving another guy is equally bad as guy leaving a woman. Women are not inherently more prone to dying in the mountains than men. The fact that everyone treats this as someone abandoning a helpless person is infuriating. It’s shitty behavior but it would be equally shitty if this guy left his male friend or if she left him. It’s 2026, this is fairly progressive space and still everyone looks at with “women need protecting” mindset. It’s mind boggling.
When I see women in the mountains I don’t think to myself “oh my god, they are here without supervision? hope they will be fine!”. Am I the only one?
I think the main takeaway here is that alpine divorce is an intent to murder. And yeh, it’s sexism. Not exactly in the way you’re putting it tho.
When they abandoned First Nations in Saskatchewan, and one made it back alive to tell people what was happening just like this woman is, the takeaway wasn’t that hey , gee, ya know they can survive being abandoned …it’s that they were abandoned to begin with WITH A VERY SPECIFIC INTENT TO DIE OUT THERE.
I think you not noticing that is the overall disgusting misogyny that society regularly overlooks and minimizes women’s right to life and safety should be considered not just that she can do it herself it’s that no one gives a shit if there was a chance she didn’t survive and how.
This shouldn’t be dismissed or minimized.
I think the main takeaway here is that alpine divorce is an intent to murder.
Assuming that women alone in the mountains will die is the sexist part. There are to aspects of this story:
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men are breaking up with women in the mountains - if you can prove this is something men do but women don’t it’s a valid take. You can call it ‘alpine divorce’. It’s weird behavior. It would be interesting to learn why it happens (if it a real phenomenon)
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more experienced hiking partners are living less experienced hiking partners alone in the mountains - this is shitty and dangerous no matter the gender. It’s about basic safety in the mountains
Both are valid concerns. It becomes sexists when you combine the two for no reason and assume women are always the less experienced person in the mountains. When I’m reading about it I’m imagining two adults going their way in the mountains. I don’t immediately assume one is responsible for the safety of the other only because of their genders. Because I’m not sexist.
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It’s sexist in the way that it might depict only women suffering from this type of behavior, but I think that women do tend to be the major demographic that suffers from this type of behavior, which, to me, is a type of sexism that is nowhere near as harmful as the behavior it condemns. It’s not saying they can’t hike.
This type of abuse can happen literally anywhere. You’re out in the city and you’re not walking fast enough? Get ditched with no warning. And that’s the problem. There is usually some modicum of control that the people ditching (you can read this as men) have over the situation that leaves the partner in a vulnerable state. Sometimes they drove. Sometimes they know the way. Sometimes they have the experience. It’s an abuse tactic to do something like that.
So, idk man, calling this sexist and then pretending there’s some unrelated problem to address is a weird take.
Yes, it is ethically wrong to leave anyone behind in the wilderness.
What has surfaced in the news more often recently is men doing this to women. Was that not clear from the article?
What has surfaced in the news more often recently is men doing this to women. Was that not clear from the article?
There was one story from the Alps. That’s it. It looks like someone saw this story and tried to create a new phenomenon looking for stories that will fit the narrative. All assuming that when two adults go into mountains women are universally the ones that can’t take care of themselves and need help and it’s men’s responsibility to provide this help. It’s sexist.
There was actually a case in Brazil recently where a girl left her male friend alone during a hike, and the guy got lost and stayed 5 days surviving alone in the jungle near the mountain until he was eventually found alive. Almost no news outlet mentions that he was abandoned, but there is a video from the girl who was supposed to be with him saying that she left him behind and out of her sight. No news outlet blamed the woman like they would if the gender roles had been reversed.
I’ve actually been left alone on a trip before. I was the less experienced one, but I managed. Not trying to play the victim just saying it happens. I’m used to being left behind it’s so ordinary I wouldn’t call the news, (because when women do this to men it would never reach the news, and whyd I’d need this attention anyways)
When women do this to men it doesn’t reach the news.
Yeah, you’re right. I’m always complaining to my Bros how I’m sick of getting left in the woods by women. /s
Come on, why bother with the lie? Why not just paste a nice link to some stats? Get out of here, man.
deleted by creator
Was that not clear from the article?
No one throwing a fit about this article has actually read the article
Yeah, I started reading the other responses… Big oof.
Popularity in the news doesn’t equate to reality, any more than everyone saying “5 emails” makes it correct to do so. It just means it’s popular in the news because it sells more ad time.
Popularity in the news doesn’t equate to reality
That’s probably true.
But it makes it weird when a story about women being effectively abandoned in the wilderness elicits responses from (I’m guessing) men who feel targeted without any connection to these events.
You’re ignoring the recent criminal case that brings this up as a topic of conversation which is a very real thing that did happen.
How did they establish it’s not also happening at the same rates in other-gendered situations? Seems anecdotal and contrived.
Sounds a lot like whataboutism.
This the same reaction as “men also are abused!”, which is obviously true, hut at much, much lower rates than women.
There is no requirement to establish a pattern of women abandoning men for this article, because it’s not about that.
which is obviously true, hut at much, much lower rates than women.
i take it you’ve manned and run the domestic crisis phone lines and seen this firsthand like i have because my experience is that women get much much more help (because help exists for women, it does not for men). men just report their first experiences, move on without getting the assistance that does not exist for abused men and then do not report any more abuse they suffer.
So an article about women being abandoned in the wilderness should somehow evoke the plight of men’s lack of support… What’s the connection between these two?
men report abuse less than women because the support structures are not there for them. it’s like autism and left-handedness. it does not go away simply because you are not looking for it.
Again, I’ll ask wtf that has to do with the article.
It’s not whataboutism, even if it sounds like it.
Primus “I want chicken”
Secundus “What about salmon?”
Primus “Whataboutism! Your claim is invalid you have lost the debate.”
Pro tip: We’re not locked into one topic. We’re allowed to make comparisons, we all do it every day.
Yes, I know you will now say I a gaslighting. You win
Some women in the outdoors industry bridle at the gender stereotypes wrapped up in alpine divorce: chiefly, the assumption that a woman cannot take care of herself or has less experience outside than her male partner. “Believe it or not, we can do things that have nothing to do with men,” said Ellison, the Climbing editor. “I really struggle with saying ‘men do this,’ and ‘women do that,’ and those generalizations.”
Blair Braverman is a writer, adventurer and dogsled musher who has competed in the Iditarod and Kobuk 440. (She took 36th place in the 2019 Iditarod, becoming the first Jewish woman to finish the storied, 1,000-mile (1,609km) race.) “Personally, if I were with a man and he wandered away from me on a mountain, I’d be more worried for him than me,” she said. “I think it’s interesting that [the term] assumes that the woman is the one with less capability.”
If there is a feminist spin on alpine divorce, it’s what comes after the women are left behind. When her ex ditched her in Zion, MJ hiked alongside a friendly female stranger and her young son. Naomi helped the woman with vertigo in Arches. “It happened to me many years ago,” one user wrote in the comment section of the viral TikTok clip. “I met 2 girls on the mountain and told them what happened, and we walked down together. They wouldn’t let me go alone.”
The article also goes into this aspect of the conversation.
So some women in the industry agree with me. Good, I was starting to think everyone is sexist. I hated the excerpt so much I didn’t read the entire article. Nice to see they also covered it.
You’re overlooking that men tend to be attracted to this sort of activity more and may have greater experience. When they invite their inexperienced girlfriend, they have a duty of care towards them. You’re right, sex doesn’t matter and this could be reversed, but you need to ask yourself where the statistic lie.
This is not sexist. You’ve found the wrong conclusion.
Yes but the story of MJ doesn’t talk about experience. It’s just talks about gender.
Many of the women described having some level of dependence on their partner in nature. They may not have been carrying the right supplies or enough water, or were not familiar with the terrain, making them feel vulnerable.
“It’s such a common thing,” said Julie Ellison, the first female editor-in-chief of Climbing magazine who now works as an outdoor lifestyle photographer. She has heard “so many stories” about men fumbling outdoor dates. “There’s that male ego element to it that’s not necessarily evil or ill-intentioned, but it usually has a negative effect on the partner who’s being left behind.”
Yep! Also touched on in the article.
men tend to be attracted to this sort of activity more and may have greater experience
I live in hiking prime area. This is not true in any way.
This is why anecdotal evidence has little use in the real world.
Men historically outnumber women hikers, but the split is relatively close. Like 55-57% of hikers are men with women and non-binary making up the rest.
Not enough to suggest the “men are innately better hikers” thing the person I was replying to was alluding to.
You’re overlooking that men tend to be attracted to this sort of activity more and may have greater experience.
They didn’t suggest men are innately better hikers. They literally said men are attracted to this hobby in larger numbers and tend to have more experience doing it.
men are attracted to this hobby in larger numbers and tend to have more experience doing it
That’s my point. I call bullshit on that.
The gender breakdown of avid hikers results in more men than women hiking. About 55-57% of hikers are men.
I’m really not trying to like argue with you or anything, I just think you’re misreading what they meant. There are more men that hike than women statistically.
the pair were not exclusive
…
MJ would learn on this trip that her partner was seeing other women
…isn’t that was “not exclusive” means?
Uhhhh
“seeing other women” means “not exclusive”
but “not exclusive” does not always mean “seeing other women”
He could be, just as one example of many, very unsuccessful at trying to see other women despite having an existing “nonexclusivity” agreement with her.
You don’t expect your BF to hook up with someone new mid-mountain.
Actually it says he wasn’t exactly her boyfriend either
Ok so it’s ok to abandon your fuck buddy. TIL
Nobody but you said that that part is OK.
You’re in a thread wondering about thee thread’s confusing description of their relationship status, not about the “leaving her behind” part.
I was talking about the hooking up mid mountain part, which is what your comment I replied to was primarily about. And the OPs too.
You can just admit you missed that part instead of getting defensive.
Casual partners may still prefer to know if their partner is sleeping with others for a variety of reasons. The first one that comes to mind is health.
Sure. My point is, though, isn’t that already implied by them not being exclusive?
They could be not exclusive but still agree to let the other know when they introduce a new sex partner.
Y’all never heard of safe sex?
“I thought he was only seeing other men!”
yes, but people are emotional and they don’t abide by their own terms
every casual relationship i ever had was never actually casual. it was just full on monogamy with a ‘get out of jail if someone better comes along’ card built in.
Valid, but far from universal. Poly people do exist.
Nothing is behind it. It’s another dramatized thing that people are using for social media clout to score points, and people lap it up. This is manufactured rage bait.
We are also only getting one side of the story. I know for a fact a few of my breakups where the other party completely warped the story to make me into a villain. I had one incident where I was teaching my gf to snowboard and she broke her wrist on the bunny slope, a super common injury. I spent all day with her in the hospital etc. We broke up 6 months later and started telling people I had shoved her to the ground and broke her wrist on purpose because I was jealous of her success as a pianist or something and was trying to sabotage her life . It was insane and her story got worse as time went on post-breakup.
90% of these are probably just unhappy people on a bad day who are re-writing the story into some elaborate narrative of evil and abuse because they know it will do well on social media. And a lot of tiktok/social media people are very unhappy people. And unhappy people do a lot of lying and exaggerating for attention. well-adjusted people aren’t making teary faced videos on tiktok about their breakups.
One of the main drivers behind this story (i should say, i think one of the main drivers) is the more recent one where a man abandoned his girlfriend in the austrian alps at night and left her for dead, and it turned out he’d (allegedly) performed that same stunt before with a different ex girlfriend (who survived).
I’m sure your personal situation might be “he said she said,” but some of these people are comparably wild
Well, no. Your post is ragebait. What’s behind it is the same thing it always was. It’s just, ya know, a trend of men not respecting their partners. It’s not new. It’s not dramatized. It’s just that typically men do not put in the same level of thought, care, and compassion for their partners as women typically do.
These stories are pretty standard abuse, honestly. I’ve heard similar types of things about shitty partners abandoning someone at amusement parks, concerts, and other venues because they got pushed into something and then didn’t “fulfill their end of the bargain” or keep up to the level that the first person wanted. Yeah, it is usually men that do this, but it’s not exclusively men. Just, ya know, most of the time.
Like, I don’t really understand how your bad breakup experience covers for this. You are downplaying the event without knowing both sides as well. Why is it okay to do that, but it isn’t okay for some to potentially dramatize it? You’re not even involved, so I think it’s worse to do this weird defending, because it sorta feels like you might be misogynist. Like, them’s the vibes.
I don’t know why you think it’s 90% of people making this up, but, uh, okay, buddy. There’s definitely no potential abusive behaviors here that a partner should look out for, it’s just 90% chance it was a bad day or a liar or something, and not shitty or abusive partners.
you might be misogynist. Like, them’s the vibes.
His post history will absolutely reveal this. This guy pops up in a lot of conversations to share stories of his evil ex girlfriends and how no woman around him wants anything but expensive bags.
He’s always very supported on this site, too.
Lmao, I didn’t even check, but you are right…
I date. I meet plenty of women who tell me on the first date that I must give up something to prove to them my worth or dedication to them. Because the point of the relationship to her is for men to suffer for her sake, and anything the man pursues for his own personal happiness is a her losing out on what should be given to her.
Oh boy, no wonder they have a lot of bad breakup experience!
I knew that the misogyny in this place was going to be worse than Reddit simply because of the size of users, but it’s even harder to stick around seeing all the support those types of comments get.
Hm, maybe I’m just not in the same places, but I usually see less here than Reddit, but that’s possibly perception bias on my end. I just call shit out when I see it, and this post just looked like it was misogyny because of the… Well, most of it looked pretty misogynistic, but I suppose I was giving the writer some undue benefit of the doubt. That’s on me, actually, I should’ve checked.
I dunno, I guess I just feel sad for people that believe that shit. They are just so fundamentally unhappy with themselves and they don’t know how to fix it.
There’s more social pressure on Reddit that pushes those opinions down. Since there’s less users here and there’s way more men than women, the casual sexism is thriving here. Thanks for calling it out when you see it.
sadly he’s been upvoted many times.
He’s always upvoted many times. It’s disgusting.
How many alts?
There’s a lot of men’s rights energy in here.
Do you have proof of any of that or is it simply your opinion?
i have as much proof as the woman in the article has about her story.
which is none at all. it’s all hearsay. social media is all hearsay. this article is about social media stories.
there is no burden of proof here. anymore than there was for dudes going on about spermjacking women 10 years ago. I remember that viral panic.
Pretty sure the guy literally convicted of manslaughter for abandoning his girlfriend to die on a hike is evidence of this happening.
Astounding that there are men in here defending these dickbags left right and centre. And presumably other men just like yep good point bro, technically correct. Please dump me and run off a fucking cliff you spineless turdweasels
A bunch of tech-focused men have shitty views about women? Color me shocked. /s
The guys who can’t muster up the courage to talk to a woman sure have a lot of opinions about them, don’t they?
Lemmy is better than Reddit but there are still terrible trolls and awful people here.
I’m willing to accept that it’s better in ways not relevant to this discussion, but tbh the ubiquitous casual misogyny is far more inescapable here imo
yes, I feel like Lemmy has a misogyny problem :-(
There are absolutely legit reasons to leave someone behind on a hike.
And I’ve heard zero of them in these stories from women.
Well, leave behind yes, abandon no. If they’re injured and you need to go for help, you make them safe as you can and then go. He did not make any effort to make her safe.
This idea that it’s totally normal and cool to start a hike with someone and then decide to leave them behind is mindboggling.
Yeah. Even if you figure out halfway through that you hate spending time with them you just fucking walk the rest of the way with them in silence. Sometimes things don’t go how you hoped and you have a bad day. Deal with it.
People are so weird. I once worked closely with a single woman, and the boss had a big Christmas party for the managers, and she brought a guy that she’d been dating for a couple months, and was getting close to.
For some reason that none of us ever learned, he decided to completely ignore her that night. He knew nobody at that party but her, and yet he pretended like he’d never seen her before. It wasn’t a big party,maybe 20 people, so we ALL saw what was going on. Eventually, he took her home, but they never went out again.
I asked her about what happened, and he wouldn’t discuss it. He dropped her off at home, and they never spoke about it on the ride home or after. The guy just decided to turn into a different person that night.
BTW, she was a really cool person, pretty, fashionable, great hair, super smart, funny, great job, owned her own house, etc. The loss was entirely his.
There are lots of parties where I don’t speak with my partner at all, but we’ve been together for nearly 15 years. That’s not how it works in your first… I dunno, three years?
Ugh, that is the stupidest, irritating thing. I felt disgust through the screen.
Maybe “MJ” herself is a shitty person, and roped some equally shitty dude into a shitty time and he decided on the way up “fuck this lady” on a probably very easy day hike and ditched her.
DUDE! I hike. If you leave together, you FUCKING come back together. YOU want to break up, put on your big boy panties and do it AFTER everyone is home safe.
Also there is no such thing as “an easy day hike.” Anything can go wrong in the wilderness and lackadaisical thinking is what gets people killed.
There are plenty of safe and easy trails out there. Again. My point is if the dude found another floozy at the top of a mountain and went off with her 1) it was probably a very active trail and 2) both people were probably able to hike it solo and also kinda shitty.
I don’t care if they were the worst people on earth walking the easier hiking path on the nicest day of the year. None of that matters! They left on a hike TOGETHER, and needed to return TOGETHER.
Full stop.
Anyone who can’t follow that one simple rule has no business out on the trails.
Looking at this comment thread, I’m beginning to think the real shitty people of this story are those who think the wilderness isn’t dangerous. The only saving grace is that your opinion doesn’t seem to be the majority.
Yup fuck so many assheads who are in here with such a dismissal of life of another person. It’s fucking gross and disgusting here.
Maybe she was shitty, but we know he was. You never abandon your hiking partner under any circumstances.
Reminds me of people going out and drinking and abandoning their friend who then gets SA. It is import to go out with good people not superficial cunts.
If you don’t like them then don’t hike with them again. It is that simple unless you are a sociopath.
The fact that he was reported to “hike down with some other woman.” And that she was able to complete the hike herself tells me it was a very easy trail and heavily populated. Just a dumb story of two assholes one of which decided to make her shitty date into an avenue of internet content for the hopeful attempt at gaining some influence. The dude was probably just annoyed and childishly trying to cause an issue with her and was like “I’m gonna walk the half mile down the 0 grade dirt path to the car with Stacy, babe.”
You don’t abandon someone period unless you are a sociopath. I get that you would abandon someone and let them die, get raped, assaulted, etc.
Choose your friends/partners very carefully.
We are just built differently I guess.
it’s not like the article or the phenomenon of “alpine divorces” rests on this single story, either, there were many stories shared in the article:
an amateur Austrian mountaineer was found guilty of gross negligence manslaughter for leaving his exhausted girlfriend behind on his country’s highest peak while he went in search of help. The man, a Salzburg chef identified only as Thomas P, said he was “endlessly sorry” for her death, and his lawyer called it a “tragic accident”. But Thomas P could not explain why he failed to wrap his freezing girlfriend in her emergency blanket before heading down the mountain without her. Earlier in their trek he had also told a police officer over the phone that they did not need any help, even though a rescue helicopter was made available to them.
A former girlfriend testified that Thomas P had left her behind on a trail during a hike in 2023 – “so that was the last mountain expedition we undertook together”, she said.
or
A few years ago, Naomi was hiking Arches national park in Utah when her group noticed a woman lying on the ground in distress.
The woman told them she suffered from severe vertigo – not ideal given the park’s topography – and her date had gone to retrieve his camera after she accidentally dropped it into the bowl near Delicate Arch. “There was no way she was going to get out by herself, and we hiked with her back down to the trailhead,” Naomi said. On the way, they learned that she was on a “second or third date” with the man. “We were asking her, like, ‘So … this might be the last date, huh?’”
Oh no! If you leave a woman behind in any location she gets raped and murdered immediately!
I’m not saying abandon someone on a fucking backpacking trip in the deep country; just saying this story reeks of a rich old-millennial/young-Gen X content creator causing a noise to make some content for their socials and not a genuine “trend” of men abandoning women on fucking glaciers.
I don’t leave anyone behind.
You are full of shit.
Naw, I have gone out and made sure people get back safely more times than you can imagine. We are just different.
I’m just gonna say it, if you want to break up with your girlfriend don’t be a dick about it.
“Don’t go on a hike with someone you don’t trust.” All you little boys in here victim blaming need to be checked.
Maybe because it is outside when someone is being insufferable you can just walk away.
And some men wonder why some women would choose a bear.
A bear would totally run away and abandon you on a hiking trail. No difference there.
Speaking from experience.
*results may vary in Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, and Alaska.
I would choose a teddy bear over any human in the woods.
TBF bears are pretty great. Bears probably win over women, too.
A recent case study illustrates this point: last month, an amateur Austrian mountaineer was found guilty of gross negligence manslaughter for leaving his exhausted girlfriend behind on his country’s highest peak while he went in search of help. The man, a Salzburg chef identified only as Thomas P, said he was “endlessly sorry” for her death, and his lawyer called it a “tragic accident”. But Thomas P could not explain why he failed to wrap his freezing girlfriend in her emergency blanket before heading down the mountain without her. Earlier in their trek he had also told a police officer over the phone that they did not need any help, even though a rescue helicopter was made available to them.
I remember hearing about this one.
He had done it before with another woman, but she didn’t die. In the recent case, the dead woman’s family supported him. Even though he took their survival supplies. Very odd situation.
A new kind of serial killer 😂
Her mom’s issue is the media and courts treated her daughter like a lost sheep led up a mountain.
She was an experienced climber and they planned their trips together.
He didn’t take the emergency supplies, he just didn’t swaddle her like a baby in her own.
The helicopter call stuff was kind of shady tho, and rightfully why he was found guilty.
But it’s not like the mom said he was innocent, she said it was likely an accident, because procedure in climbs like that is to leave someone behind, and she knew that because her daughter had been doing this long before the boyfriend.
But her comments got misrepresented for the headlines.
It all makes logical sense, it’s just the people telling us about it care more about drama and clicks than informing people.
If you understand it, it becomes an incredibly boring story that doesn’t stand out. Which is why TikTok went the complete opposite direction, and mainstream media is reporting on their nonsense for the clicks.
Quick edit:
Specifically for the emergency blanket part, the last stages of hypothermia makes you feel insanely hot.
The early stages cut off circulation to limbs to keep the torso warm, that’s why frostbite effects the extremities, it’s a trade off. When you’re going to die from it, you’re body can’t squeeze you’re arties off and all that “warm” blood floods to your limbs, causing them to quickly rise in temp while the vital parts get cold.
So she likely was bundled up just fine when he left her.
That’s all normal stuff climbers know, but the media/courts seemed to be willfully ignorant of.
All the articles I’ve read say he never applied the emergency blanket, it was still packed away. Nor did he make her safe by building any kind of shelter or securing her against wind.
And then he also did not call for help until three hours after they decided they needed help, and rejected the helicopter rescue. None of those are normal things. Those are the actions of someone abandoning someone to die.
None of those are normal things.
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Which is why he was found guilty of manslaughter
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And those bad decisions may likely be due to stress/incompetence. Something that happens, but again that’s what makes it manslaughter.
Those are the actions of someone abandoning someone to die.
If you’re ignorant of the realities of alpine mountaineering I could understand why you believe that.
The dead woman’s mom wasn’t ignorant of it tho, that’s why she keeps saying it wasn’t murder.
How experienced are you with cold weather mountain climbing?
I grew up doing it.
Well, then you don’t have an excuse
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i left this bitch ass on a mountain one time he was being toxic as hell. ruined my damn trip. left him up there with a group of girls we had just met. fuck it
So…
They weren’t in an exclusive relationship.
She told him to walk ahead without her.
And he talked to someone else since she told him not to walk with her, someone he seems to have met while waiting for her at the summit before going down.
Kind of sounds like she broke off a situationship on a hike. And immediately assumed if he talked to any woman then he was romantically interested in her, so their open relationship was never going to work anyways.
Even the actual alpine one where the woman was left in a blizzard recently and died, her parents have come out and said the infantilizing of their daughter was an insult to her memory.
Like, it should be a safe bet that anything that starts on TimToknis bullshit.
But yeah, big outdoorsy trips aren’t for rocky relationships. Romantic or otherwise you need to be going with people you trust. Shit can get stressful and not everyone reacts well to stress. It’s not the same thing as the same distance walk thru the park.
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions there.
No, I just read the article…
What app/frontend do you use? It seems most people are missing the feature to open the source to read.
Yeah that situation seemed defensible on his part. But then the article comes in and outright says that in a lot of these cases it’s a failure of communication where the men aren’t thinking about it like that and in hindsight realized that they’d made a mistake.
That all said, I find it difficult to be sympathetic to these guys as someone who likes to hike with her wife. Even if I was annoyed she wasn’t able to keep up with me I can’t imagine ditching her even if she told me to. When I go hiking with someone or a group one of the major rules is that you never leave the weakest hiker alone unless it’s an emergency. You stick together and enjoy each other’s company
Wife is quite a different magnitude of commitment, in comparison to a non-exclusive non-girlfriend partner.
So like, some lady I’m on an early date with? Yeah no different in general rule. If I take you into a situation that you aren’t individually comfortable in I’m an asshole for ditching you there alone, even if we decide we hate each other in the meantime
What? No it isn’t. This isn’t about personal relationships, it’s about responsibility during a dangerous hike.
By the way: this particular hike is very very very safe.
Doesn’t mean it’s ok to abandon your hiking partner whilst on the hike.
Like seriously, you think that it’s ok to treat someone terribly on a hike as long as they’re only a casual partner?
Depends on the hike’s safety.
None of you read it and are taking givesomefucks at his word about what’s in the article lol
Feel free to elaborate. Voyager let’s you read the article, in case you need it.
I did read it. And givesomefucks is absolutely adding his own spin and assumptions, most clearly where he’s asserting that the author and MJ were assuming her partner was romantically interested in the woman he met at the top and climbed back down with. That’s no where in the article.
Were there any other assumptions?
OK, so the bit where the poster says “sounds like” and not “he stated for the article” is the bit you see as not substantiated by the article? Everything else is accurate, except the bit were the poster uses a euphemism for “this is something that seems to me without explicit confirmation”. Had op said that as a fact, and with more examples, you would have a point. But as is… Nah
How dare you!
Putting in that the woman in the story assumed her partner was romantically interested in the gal he met at the top that he climbed back down with is absolutely making assumptions. That kind of assumption is not in the article and you’re framing it as if she was being irrational.
As they made their way up Angel’s Landing, MJ’s partner started walking faster than her. “I could tell it was getting on his nerves that I was slow,” she said. “I was like, ‘Fuck it, just go ahead of me.’” He did without hesitation.
When she caught up at the top of the mountain, they took a picture together. Then her partner hiked down the mountain with a woman he had met on the way up, leaving MJ to finish by herself
Both her and the author thought it was important to note that it was gasp a woman that he talked to.
There’s a logical implication for why they both thought that was important enough to be included when retelling the story.
Saying that someone’s implication might not be true isn’t the same as making an assumption.
It’s literally the opposite…
You’re literally making an assumption.
Neither the author nor MJ said he was romantically interested in the other woman.
So then it’s not a big deal he talked to someone else after his date told him to leave her?
And he’s a good guy for ensuring she made it safely to the top before returning?
Like, what exactly do you think that guy did wrong then?
Because logically I have zero idea what you’re doing.
It’s a big deal that he started with a hiking partner and then abandoned her. It’s rude.
And hellesbelle was correct when they said you were making a lot of assumptions here.
With a male bias. Are you a misogynist by chance?
Are you a misandress, by chance?
maybe they’re just a man…
Damn what a cowardly way to dump someone. Is it really that much of a pain in the ass to stick it out for a couple of days until you’re not literally abandonning someone somewhere they didn’t expect to be alone? Bunch of douchy and selfabsorbed asshats.
For context, angel’s landing is one of probably the top 5 most famous hikes in the country. It’s so popular that they have timed entry, and you have to book a time well in advance. It would be very, very, very hard to get lost, you can see the spot you started from pretty much the whole way, you are part of a steady stream of people, and there’s cell service. There is no “alone” on that hike.
People have died on that hike, but if you exclude suicide and people who were intentionally going off trail to get pictures closer to cliff edges, it’s very unlikely. You are probably safer getting dumped there than at a restaurant in a part of town you aren’t familiar with.
I would not put that anywhere near the same category as guy who left his girlfriend on a mountaineering expedition.
People can have problems on a hike that aren’t deadly but still require support. If a partner is slow it might be because they’re getting sick or injured. Even if the chance of them dying is low, it’s still your responsibility as their partner to look after them. No one else on that trail is going to have a higher responsibility to support them.
My comment was mainly aimed at the general thought of just abandonning someone on any hike, not necessarily this particular one, but the whole “alpine divorce” thing in itself.
Or to call it off before you start hiking. Or even to stick together not happy and not liking each other on your way back
