Landmark legislation sees the Australian government committed to the novel step of child protection by banning social media for under sixteens.
It’s still not entirely clear how the Australian government thinks they’re actually going to enforce this.
Plenty of web services already require you to state your age to use them and I believe a large majority of users just coincidentally happen to be born on January 1st, 1900 as a result.
If they’re expecting these tech companies to be gathering and storing peoples’ government ID’s, or something, somebody needs to carefully explain to them using small words why this is a monumentally stupid idea. Does something need to be done about social media addiction and the rampant sketchy behavior of the tech giants? Yes, probably. Is a blanket ban ever the actual solution to anything? No, very rarely.
It’s just apparently all anyone can come up with when they’ve got government-brain.
They’ve set it up so it’s a legal mess. The platforms aren’t given any mechanism to actually perform verifications (no double blind id system, for example) but are legally on the hook for each and every under-16 on the platforms. A quote in the article suggests it should be the app stores verifying which is even more fucking stupid.
Well, I know how that would go if I were a globe-spanning social media giant. Given that the entirety of the Australian market is roughly the size of New York state (~26 vs ~20 million people), I would say, “Nah mate, we just won’t do business in Oz anymore. Bye.”
Vanishingly few business make a “New York only” version of their product because it’s simply not worth it. Australia already suffers under this problem for a great deal of physical products. Ask any computer nerd about that, when trying to source parts and often video game titles as well. Shipping things to the Antipodes and/or dealing with Antipodean regulations is expensive, for an objectively low number of potential sales.
It would not surprise me to learn if it follows that Australia generates roughly 1.7% of the revenue for Facebook or whoever as, say, India. So in other words, bupkis.
Platforms love to use this threat… “if you regulate us we’ll just withdraw services in your jurisdiction”. They never do, and governments shouldn’t respond to threats like that in any case. If one or other platform were to restrict services in Aus, it would just increase the potential revenue for some other platform.
Platforms love to use this threat… “if you regulate us we’ll just withdraw services in your jurisdiction”. They never do,
Pornhub pulled out of 17 states. You need to buy a hustler magazine now. Australia will just have to buy National Enquirer magazines instead of doom scrolling for their fix.
Sure, but on the flip side I’m fine either way. Watching either a megacorporation or an out of touch nanny-state government get fucked is just about equivalent in my books. We could use a lot more of both, and I don’t even live in Australia.
Meta, for instance, wants to cease operations anywhere on the planet? Insert Willy Wonka meme here: No, stop, don’t… Bye…
As Muskrat has shown us with Xitter, profits arent everything when your already a billionaire. Sometimes its about burning a pile of money in exchange for influence, control and power.
A quote in the article suggests it should be the app stores verifying which is even more fucking stupid.
Why?
Probably because the internet isn’t an app store
… I didn’t say it was.
The quote says that app stores should be responsible for verifying age, but social media is not limited to apps - they’re just one of multiple user interfaces for interacting with social networks. So that alone cannot solve the problem.
Sorry for the confusion
Who said it alone would solve the problem?
Because how would you do that on desktop? Or on a degoogled phone? Or if the download was via an apk from elsewhere?
You are assuming that is the only way which is being considered. The suggestion (of app stores verifying) is from someone who has no power in implementation.
Because the app store isn’t the only way to install an app. It is trivially easy to side load apps and it’s well within the technologic skillset of the average 12 year old.
They can also just use a web browser.
It is one way (of many) which can be used; the suggestion isn’t from someone who is involved in the implementation, just someone on Instagram.
I recently switched from 1 January 1900 to 1 January 2000. It feels good to be young again.
What will be interesting for sure is the difference of this approach vs. the porn approach in the southern US. In this case in Australia? Social media companies will tip toe any line they can because there is so much money to be made and they want every dollar.
PornHub? They just blocked access in 17 states instead of even trying to worry about age verification. They’re still getting their users, but now they’re coming over VPN.
https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/pornhub-florida-vpn-google-searches-skyrocket/
And, Pornhub can probably play the waiting game in those states as well. Enough people in those places will probably get pissed off enough eventually to pressure their legislators into walking those laws back. It might just take a year or two. I imagine everyone involved already knows, but the idiots who wrote the laws need to wait for the headlines to cool off a bit before they can backpedal, in order to save face.
I imagine Facebook or someone of similar size could do the same in Aus. All they have to do is refuse to serve anything to Aussie IP addresses except a message that says, “Sorry, we can’t serve your country anymore because of a law passed by [legislator.] Remember, this is all his fault.”
Politicians infamously do not give a flying fuck about the opinions of minors, but if they piss everyone else off too the people responsible will either be out on their ears next election or buried under an avalanche of nasty letters from their 40-and-up constituency.
And, Pornhub can probably play the waiting game in those states as well. Enough people in those places will probably get pissed off enough eventually to pressure their legislators into walking those laws back.
Nobody’s going out to protest this shit. There’s too much stigma around it. Even though I’m sure this frustrates huge swaths of the population, it’s politically shameful.
I imagine Facebook or someone of similar size could do the same in Aus. All they have to do is refuse to serve anything to Aussie IP addresses except a message that says, “Sorry, we can’t serve your country anymore because of a law passed by [legislator.] Remember, this is all his fault.”
Why would they do that though? Large sites like Facebook are the only ones with resources to handle ID verification. They can do it and let their competitors die.
I don’t really have a positive outlook on how this is going to play out. Shy of big money flooding into free speech orgs that can legitimize the fight, or a polarizing leader like Larry Flint, I don’t see this going well.
The commissioner is supposed to come up with guidelines for what is a reasonable check, so we find out when they come up with it I guess 🤷
it’s still not entirely clear how the Australian government thinks they’re actually going to enforce this.
“Awww shucks everyone, looks like we don’t get to have internet privacy after all. Don’t worry, it’s FOR THE CHILDREN.”
Another way to think about this: Why should you have to give random companies your ID because Australian teens need to prove their age?
Yeah, someone should tell the guy at the bar checking IDs to piss off too. And what’s with these fucks at the pharmacy demanding to see my medical license. They shouldn’t be hassling me because someone else might be writing illegal scripts.
- The bar is your local law
- Websites can permanently store your ID
- You’re dumb
It’s still not entirely clear how the Australian government thinks they’re actually going to enforce this.
<socialMediaOperators> Since identity verification checks for minors is an absolute nightmare security scenario we are deciding to pull all operations out of Australia.
The plan is their mygov id system and this has been years in the making.
Australian governments (both lib and labor) are on board with this and have been salivating over the idea of an internet more locked down than South Korea’s.
It boggles the mind how many times a higher up comes up with some idea (in any context, not just politicians), and never stops to answer the question: “how is this going to work?”.
She’ll be right mate, don’t worry about it 🇦🇺
Magic. That is the only way they can enforce this drivel.
deleted by creator
So where exactly are kids supposed to go? People will go on about “they should just go outside” but kids have literally had the cops called on them for the crime of walking around their own neighborhood “unsupervised”. I’ve seen calls to ban kids from all sorts of places - planes, theme parks, restaurants, libraries. I’ve seen these “mosquito” things put up to drive kids away from public places. Kids are spending all their time on social media because they have nowhere else to go.
I think this perspective (that teens have nothing else in their lives other than social media) is harmful. I don’t understand why they’re not able to do the same things teens did before social media…
Police being called on harmless teenagers by the same busybodies over and over again kind of sorts itself out after awhile.
This is the travel range for kids in the UK by generation. Such a map would be far worse in the US or Australia
They can’t do the same things teenagers did before because the world has been growing more and more hostile to teenagers. More places have banned kids. We have these mosquito things making noises to drive teenagers away. It’s become more difficult to get around without a car. Parents have become more helicoptery, not letting their kids out of the house. And “sorts itself out”? Here’s what happens. Some asshole calls the cops on teenagers just hanging out. The cops, with nothing better to do than harass innocent people, show up and chase them away. Now those teenagers don’t feel safe going back there, because they don’t wanna get cops coming after them. Or maybe the cops don’t stop at chasing the kids off! Maybe they get arrested for “loitering” or some nonsense. Maybe they get accused of dealing drugs because teenagers hanging around is strange and suspicious, and the cops love to frame innocent people. Cops getting called isn’t some silly and frivilous thing.
Have you actually witnessed that entire event pan out?
The police that I personally know, visit the caller and talk to them first to understand the complaint and often (but I agree not always) educate the caller that teenagers are just doing what the caller(s) did at their age… usually, there are no more calls and all groups move on with their lives.
Unfortunately, that doesn’t make headlines and it’s not emotive enough to discuss.
In my personal experience, the older generations trust the media and just believe / expect the worst will happen. Most parents, younger adults, just don’t see the problem.
The police that I personally know, visit the caller and talk to them first to understand the complaint and often (but I agree not always) educate the caller that teenagers are just doing what the caller(s) did at their age… usually, there are no more calls and all groups move on with their lives.
do you happen to be white
Me? I’m not the subject here… I’m just providing a real-life account of a counter point of view, which I guess you didn’t agree with.
Look, I don’t live in Australia, but the way you describe it makes it sound like every single person is a cunt and every place is exactly the same, urban or rural.
Tell me the places with these mosquito sounds.
Can they take public transport or their bikes? A group have their parent or other family provide rides?
Parents aren’t helicoptery enough of this is the kind of shit teens are up against day in and day out.
Here’s what happens when the cops show up to a busy body call. The cops show up, they ask what’s going on, they see nothing illegal is happening and leave. Kids continue living their lives. Can’t loiter at the park. Don’t trespass or loiter in a parking lot or other private property. If they keep calling, the cops start recognizing whose calling and stop questioning the same kids over and over. Cops always give warnings about loitering. If your police are arresting minors for loitering, you got bigger problems. Honestly, isn’t it just a ticket?
Whether or not cops are safe depends on many factors, but having the cops know where you’re kids are isn’t a terrible thing.
cops love to frame innocent people
Get off the internet and crime shows
How dangerous are the police in Australia? How many fatalities? How often?
Edit: advocating for after school programs / funding would be worthwhile. I think your perspective is exaggerated and dismissive, but we could potentially agree on this much.
This just isnt true at all and is fear mongering at its best. You are projecting your own fear and paranoias out in the open and then attributing it to society
So where exactly are kids supposed to go? People will go on about “they should just go outside” but kids have literally had the cops called on them for the crime of walking around their own neighborhood “unsupervised”. I’ve seen calls to ban kids from all sorts of places - planes, theme parks, restaurants, libraries. I’ve seen these “mosquito” things put up to drive kids away from public places. Kids are spending all their time on social media because they have nowhere else to go.
Outside. It may take society a bit of time to adjust, just like it took a bit of time before kids not being outside became normal, but it will happen. Kids run around my town all the time unsupervised, nobody is calling the cops, and parents are looking out for each others kids. Just because some places have gone off the deep end doesn’t mean everywhere has.
You can message your friends without all the misinformation and self-harm promoting algorithms
They didn’t say anything about that
They asked what they can do
It can be the same as they do now just without the damage
They should go the fuck outside, what you said isnt true at all. Also, kids arent buying their own phones and internet, the parents are.
Social media is harming them in that case.
They will create their own places… which might not actually be desirable for the government lol
I’m old enough to remember I spent my days riding my bike around town, exploring the woods, hanging out at friends’ houses, going to the pizza place and hitting baseballs at the school field with my brothers.
Hang on. Where I’m Australia have cops been called on kids walking around the neighbourhood? The kids around my neighbourhood go around on their bicycles, skateboard and play in the parks. A few of them graffiti and others put up ads to walk dogs for a fee.
That said, this law is dumb. Australia is so hostile to the tech industry.
Even excluding everything other than computers, you can still play games, talk to friends, code etc.
